Studygroup hand: Slowplay?

I'm on the button with QQ. UTG, new player has only played a few hands, don't think he/she's a 2+2'er, only read is might be loose, limps. MLUZZ, who is playing the role of table maniac tonight raises, I reraise, UTG and MLUZZ call.


Flop is A-Q-Q, rainbow.


UTG checks, MLUZZ checks, do you check or bet and why?


Dynasty disagreed with the way I played the flop, so I am seeking opinions.

Acehigh/Azreil


I bet every time in that spot. Hopefully someone with an Ace will give me action.


Nobody expects you to bet with that monster,giving you more of a reason to bet it.


I hope that helps


Mk

If you don't reraise on flop someone is more likely to figure you for a bluff on the flop and trips on the turn with a raise. This way someone might put you on another pair or Ace. IMHO

I bet as well. You are supposed to bet in last position, if you do not it looks more suspicious than if you did.


Jimbo

id bet out...if you check and they bet, then what? call? if you call what are they going to put you on?


at least by betting out, they may think your bluffing on it a little.


try looking at it from the opponents perspective as by the way you play, to what you may hold.


the time i start check/calling is when they realize im betting nuts on the flop. then i adjust


b

In the long run, does it matter how you play flopped quads? It will happen so rarely, that you're not going to improve as a player by figuring out the "perfect" answer.


Since you're in last position and can't count on anybody else to bet the turn, I would just bet my hand and hope to get played with by an Ace.

Well, you could probably guess that I won the hand. Here's how it went:


I checked the flop. Turn was a blank, UTG bet out, MLUZZ raised, me and UTG callled. River is a blank, UTG bets again, MLUZZ calls and I raise, UTG calls and MLUZZ folds.


After the hand, Dynasty said he thought I should have bet the flop. This surprised me seeing how much action I got on the turn and river, slowplaying worked perfectly. I don't slowplay that much, but this seemed like an obvious opportunity to me.


Here are my reasons for slowplaying:


Good chance nobody has an Ace, MLUZZ would raise preflop with a very wide variety of hands. I thought if MLUZZ had an Ace he probably would have bet it on the flop. And I wasn't sure a weak Ace could call me down because hitting his kicker would not be an out.


MLUZZ had shown that he would bet with a lot of hands that he couldn't call with, it wasn't unusual for him to bet and fold to a raise.


I didn't think MLUZZ would let the flop and turn get checked around.


Not much risk of free card hurting me.

I think you have to check/raise and slowplay more often in shorthanded games because so many times the flop doesn't hit anyone. So it matters it a meta-game sort of way.


Plus you were the one who first raised the issue, so I thought you thought it was important.

"In the long run, does it matter how you play flopped quads? It will happen so rarely, that you're not going to improve as a player by figuring out the "perfect" answer"


dont look at it as flopped quads, look at it as flopped nuts. not as the actual hand, but the 'type' of hand. type= the nuts...


if the opponents are likely to check the nuts to the turn, then they wont necesarily put you on it if you bet the flop.


i watch how players play the nuts, and i see them miss many bets on the turn when they kill their action. player's image affects this.


he actually made out pretty good on this hand the way he played it. probably thank shorthanded for that, may not have got as much on a full table.


but next time he flops a nut hand, they may be more leary on the turn. many options are available when flopping a nut, use em all.


b

in shorthanded, sometimes players dont take into consideration others play. they just get aggressive trying to bluff and semibluff. this can border on overplaying a hand. which i believe acehigh spotted in anothers play, and thus took advantage of it. so actually i think he played the player pretty good. and if the opponent doesnt slow a little after that, he didnt learn much.


ive seen this in live shorthanded. guys try to play like a ring game. too tight. and when theyre in betting, other guys are thinking that theyre bluffing. wrong. many still wont bet unless they 'have' something. theyre still playing like its a full game. and what was the read then? thus the guy who calls him or tries to semi bluff raise him misreads the situation drastically and loses chips. being aware of how others play a shorthanded game can be a huge key in profit. it can tell you how aggressive you can get once the flop is out, and who will be aggressive also.


watch for it..


b

AceHigh,


Put yourself in the SB with the same hand. How do you play it then?


Jimbo

dont look at it as flopped quads, look at it as flopped nuts. not as the actual hand, but the 'type' of hand. type= the nuts...


I think you should make a distinction between (1) a flopped nut hand which can be outdrawn such as a flush, straight, or set and (2) a flopped nut hand which "can't" be outdrawn such as flopped quads and better. This is esspecially true when you've got flopped quads and there is an overcard to your quads on the flop.

I think you have to check/raise and slowplay more often in shorthanded games because so many times the flop doesn't hit anyone


I think this is counter-balanced by the fact that players are correct to chase more often in short-handed games with overcards or even hands like QJ on a K,9,4 rainbow board.


Plus you were the one who first raised the issue, so I thought you thought it was important.


I just hated seeing you check with an Ace on the board. I thought there was a strong possibility you were going to get checkraised on the flop by an Ace. That would have been sweet!

true, but look at it from an opponents perspective. some of them play as if a nut flop cant be beaten. even a nut str8. we know they can, and are vulnerable, but they think a 10 out draw hitting is BS. haha *player dependent*


thus you can group them together somewhat and get the same reaction.


when gauging from your opponents view, the distinction may not be as clear.


on the hands you mentioned...


"(1) a flopped nut hand which can be outdrawn such as a flush, straight, or set and (2) a flopped nut hand which "can't" be outdrawn such as flopped quads and better. "


...i would usually bet out on the flop on all of them. only when they start to get wise to that, do i start altering it really. of course youll have to adjust quicker with better players against you.


btw, the set i tend to play as a nut draw also, even if i have the best at the time.


b

it is extremely rare for me to check quads when last to act regardless of the # of players at the table/in the hand.


Do you really want to lose this betting round?

I think you guys are missing something and maybe it's because I didn't describe MLUZZ well enough, but I thought the chances of the turn being checked thru were very small. MLUZZ would bet a lot of hands that he wouldn't call with, and he didn't disappoint when he raised the turn for me.