When to start getting aggressive

[TEBPilot]

I mainly play the $20 SNGs at Party poker and find myself in this situation very often. 5 or 6 players remaining with my stack somewhere around 500-600 at the 50/100 level. Most of the time this is a result of playing tight but not getting any cards or having a good starting hand and not hitting the flop. At this point, raising 3xBB doesn't seem to be an option as I am dumping 1/2 of my stack or more so I usually just push.
For you players who are consistently winning at this level, when do you start getting aggressive in this situation? Do you limp into some pots and try to steal after the flop when rags hit? Should I be more aggressive at the 25/50 level? Should I just be patient and wait for any pair/A10 or better to push or is pushing with any two the proper move?
I don't feel like I'm playing poorly but my ROI after 400 games is a whopping 10% so maybe I am playing poorly /images/graemlins/mad.gif

Thanks in advance.

[lorinda]

5 or 6 players remaining with my stack somewhere around 500-600 at the 50/100 level.

Sounds like you are panicking too early, this is not a terrible position.

I don't feel like I'm playing poorly but my ROI after 400 games is a whopping 10% so maybe I am playing poorly

Remember that some of the people here are amongst the very best on the net.

To be making 10% ROI, you have overcome a 9% rake and won 10% on top of that, so you are doing 19% better than the average player.... far from being poor and it means you can learn and get paid for it.

Lori

[A J Carisse]

If you're finding yourself getting into this situation TOO much, then it's possible you need to start playing more hands earlier on. The lower limits are great in that you can see the flop relatively cheaply and when you hit you can take advantage of that real loose money while it's still in the game. I'm not suggesting you play garbage though - let them do that - but look to take a few more shots with medium strength hands with position.

Say though that you are in this position anyway. I agree it's not the time to panic yet for sure. Although you don't want to wait too long either. You're going to pick it up though before you get too short stacked, but in the 50/100 round I'd still sit tight and wait for something good.

While your 10% ROI doesn't seem like anything to brag about, at least you're not losing like most players. The setup for SNG's at Party is outright retarded so winning there at all is an accomplishment. Back when I gave those a try I was getting in the 70's ROI at another site, and after a dozen or so at Party, where I actually lost a little, I had had enough. The problem is of course that unless you're playing like a maniac and incurring way too much risk, you're surviving to rounds with huge blinds that denigrates the game to pretty much a crap shoot - it comes down to what cards you get at that point as you fight to stay in the game. I had cases where I had a 2-1 chip lead on everyone else, but the cards ran cold and I ended up getting blinded out at the 300/600 level. In a nutshell, they don't give you enough money and the blinds escalate too fast.

So if you're beating this game then you actually have something to be proud of /images/graemlins/smile.gif

A.J.

[ChrisV]

5-600 is getting a bit low but not quite panic territory. 400 is panic territory. You need to be careful of the blinds doubling when you're in EP though as the 100/200 blinds will destroy you with that stack depth.

Really it's a problem in the structure of the tourney though, and if you want my honest opinion I don't think the $30's and below are particularly good games. At the $50 level you start with 1000 chips which actually makes a big difference in terms of room to breathe. The $30's and below are profitable but I'd rather be playing 2/4 or 3/6 limit holdem which are both nuts games.

[TEBPilot]

Sometimes I am able to catch some cards early and get up to about 1200-1500 by level 3. This usually gives some breathing room and I can usually make the money from this position. I guess my question is really about when to start attempting steals/bluffs. When I'm sitting with 500-600, should I start trying to build my stack at the 25/50 level with some aggressive play or should I simply wait unit 50/100 and push? From everything I've read on these forums, limping in with a 5xBB stack is just bad news.

[TEBPilot]

[ QUOTE ]
5 or 6 players remaining with my stack somewhere around 500-600 at the 50/100 level.

Sounds like you are panicking too early, this is not a terrible position.

I don't feel like I'm playing poorly but my ROI after 400 games is a whopping 10% so maybe I am playing poorly

Remember that some of the people here are amongst the very best on the net.

To be making 10% ROI, you have overcome a 9% rake and won 10% on top of that, so you are doing 19% better than the average player.... far from being poor and it means you can learn and get paid for it.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the kind words Lori. Where are some of the worst players on the net? Should I try a site which has a different/slower blind structure?

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
Back when I gave those a try I was getting in the 70's ROI at another site, and after a dozen or so at Party, where I actually lost a little, I had had enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're posting here you should probably know why this statement just makes your post look bad.

I would strongly suggest reading this forum for a while and then going back to Party.

[lorinda]

Sorry, what I meant is that some of the people on this forum are some of the best on the net, so when you're hearing about 35-40% ROI, you're dealing in general with very good players.

You're playing at a good site to play at, your win rate will creep up over time just by reading here and posting the occasional hand for critisism (Heck, post more than the occasional if you want /images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

Lori

[lorinda]

should I simply wait unit 50/100 and push?

To some degree yes, however don't be scared of going down to 400. If the hands don't come at 50/100 then don't push, but if you get an A9 suited in late position and nobody in (or 44, etc, you get the idea) then have a push and see how you get on, you'll quite often get the 150 and buy yourself some time, and sometimes you'll win when called.

If the opportunity simply doesn't come up then wait one more round, funny things can happen if you hang around and even if you are down to 400, one lucky pot with a desperate push gets you back to a comfortable level again.

Lori

[spentrent]

I bet that if you add just one or two stabs per game -- the kind that make you feel uncomfortable right now, like check-raising half your stack on a flop you missed against one opponent -- you will add a few percentage points to the ol' ROI.

This could be the extra 600 or 700 chips that will let you slide off the bubble. Opinions?

[texasrattlers]

I think if you play a hand in this situation you should be all in -- no limping, no 1 or 2 BB raises (unless you have AA /images/graemlins/wink.gif). Tom McEvoy wrote a good article about this type of situation for CardPlayer magazine. This link should bring you there: http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/?a_id=13698

Just the way I see things now.