QQ, A on board, two opponents

[Guy McSucker]

Party 5/10 6-max.

QQ in CO. Limp, I raise, Button (loose/passive on the whole) calls, BB and limper call.

Flop: As 6s 5d. I have the Qs.

Checked to me, I bet, button calls, BB folds, limper calls. Limper gets attached to any pair and plays pretty much any two that take his fancy.

Was my flop bet optimistic? Should I shut down now?

Turn: 5s.

What's my plan?

Guy.

[Guido]

I would bet, you could very well have the best hand and if not you probably have a lot of outs. When they both call and you don't improve on the river I would probably check-call.

Guido

[DrGutshot]

I would often be tempted to bet the river as well IF the flop was more like A/T/4 or A/J/8 because it is more likely they are calling me down with mid pair. However, I think in this case betting the turn and check/calling the river is right.
If you are raised on the turn, call and fold a non-spade river.

-DrG

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

I would bet, you could very well have the best hand and if not you probably have a lot of outs. When they both call and you don't improve on the river I would probably check-call.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks chaps.

That's just what I did. Bet turn, button called; check-called river to be shown 66 for the flopped set and turned full house.

I've posted a few hands where I felt I'd perhaps gone too far with my hand, and been told by people who should know that I've done okay. So that's not the reason I'm struggling to beat these games... better look elsewhere for leaks.

Where might I look?

(One leak I identified with the help of pokertracker is that I'm being dealt AA 30% less than I should be over 15k hands... I can't do much about that, though, can I? /images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Guy.

[Guido]

Maybe you should call down more.
Maybe you should bet more for value.
Maybe you should raise more preflop.
Maybe you should defend more in the blinds.
Maybe you should steal more.
Maybe you should slowplay less.
Maybe you should check-raise more to protect your hand.
Maybe you have played less than 50K hands and you just didn't get your share of good cards.

I really don't know what your leaks are/could be. Just post some hands when you aren't sure.

Thanks,

Guido

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
I would bet, you could very well have the best hand and if not you probably have a lot of outs. When they both call and you don't improve on the river I would probably check-call.

Guido

[/ QUOTE ]

One part of this statement I question, if he is behind how in the world does he have a lot of outs? Any hand he'd be behind at this point, he'd only have 2 outs to beat. That's not a lot imo.

[vector]

The turn brought the third spade, he has the Qs, second nut flush draw. If he is behind he's likely behind to an ace, so the flush outs are often good. Not this time as it turned out.

[Joe826]

[ QUOTE ]

Maybe you should defend more in the blinds.
Maybe you should steal more.


[/ QUOTE ]

i get what you are saying, but for a struggling player i don't think these 2 things are primarily what's giving them a hard time. in fact, i found that when i was struggling i was probably giving too much action in these situations.

[TazQ]

You can't check call the river against loose passive opponents.

[Guido]

I agree with you, just gave some things he might have a look at. It really depends on his stats. I mean when he defends 20% in the BB he has a big problem. When he defends 30% it's still a problem but a lot smaller.

Guido

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
The turn brought the third spade, he has the Qs, second nut flush draw. If he is behind he's likely behind to an ace, so the flush outs are often good. Not this time as it turned out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yikes, failed to notice that he had the flush draw completely. I hate reading these hand posts without the converter.