Has CA come to LV?

[Barry]

What has happened to the LV poker scene since the summer?

When I was in LV last in August, the poker was still mostly the usual mix of weak tighties and loosies with a few LAG's thrown in to make the games good, without a lot of variance.

So I arrive on Tuesday and get into the Bellagio 15/30 game. UTG raises are given very little respect, often 3 bet by hands like QTo, suited A's or suited connectors, and still 5 or more folks see the flop. I also have never seen so many semi-bluff turn checkraises over the course of a session as I have during this trip. This is even nuttier than the Party 15/30 games, which I am quite comfortable in.

Within a relatively short time, I found myself down nearly 3 racks in a 3/6 chip game. An amazingly short time later, I had bailed out and wound up even. It was the same thing the next day, I had a 3 rack swing, thankfully ending on the up side. Later that night I got into the 30/60 Bellagio game and had another 2 rack downswing followed by a 3 rack upswing. Last night, it was the same thing again, this time, ending down 3 racks. I guess that we experience this type of variance every now and again, but in every session? Also, I'm not sure that I have yet made the right adjustments yet to my game or my emotional state. I almost feel like playing golf for the rest of the trip.

Also "the rock" was involved much of the time in the 30/60 game. For those of you that are not familiar with this, either someone posts a live straddle, or the table contributes to create a live straddle. In the case of the 30/60 game, 6 chips are rubber banded together to create "the rock". Who ever wins that hand, gets the "rock" and is obligated to post a live straddle with it the next time that they are UTG. One of these rock hands was capped (5 bets) preflop 7 ways, won by 66, (which was the fellow that put in the last raise PF) that wound up making a straight on the river. I had AKs and totally missed the flop.

I have never played in CA, but I guess that these are the types of games that are more normally found there. So what the heck is going on to so dramatically change the games in just a few months?

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey Barry,

This is great news!!! I woke up this morning and decided that I'm coming to LV today if I can find a friend to go with me. I might go even if I can't. I'm so sick of my DSL being down and not being able to work on my PC. So yeah, now I'm even more pumped to go!

GoT

[lil']

Sounds like the games have gone a little wild and crazy? That's good to know. I'll be interested to hear what people have to say. I'll be out there on Wednesday, and I plan to play in that game.

[Boris]

What happens if you win a pot and decide to keep the rock?

I hate those stupid rocks.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
What happens if you win a pot and decide to keep the rock?

I hate those stupid rocks.

[/ QUOTE ]

The rock rules. Why anyone would hate the rock is totally beyond my comprehension. It makes others play very poorly, while you can simply play correctly by realizing that it is not really money in the pot. Why would anyone *not* want that edge?

[GuyOnTilt]

What happens if you win a pot and decide to keep the rock?

Then you're a dick.

I hate those stupid rocks.

I think they're great for the game. Clark was telling me about a 40 game at the Mirage once where they had three of them in play. If someone acquired all three at the same time, everybody else at the table had to pay them 3 or 4 chips or something like that. Last time I was at the Mirage we introduced one into a 20 game and it lasted for several hours. The table went from being tight/aggressive to loose/aggressive very quickly.

GoT

[skp]

When I was there a couple of weeks ago, I found myself stuck $3700 in a 30 game before finishing the session up $120. 14 hour session. Longest one I have played in about 5 years.

I had never ever been stuck $3700 in any game before this. I went to Vegas with just $4k and this was happening on my first night. Not a pretty scene...heh.

[Boris]

[ QUOTE ]
Then you're a dick.

[/ QUOTE ]

Better than being a pussy or an a$$hole. Remember, there's only 3 kinds of people in this world...

[turnipmonster]

doesn't the rock effectively make the game 60-30-60-60? plus if you win a pot you get a cheap flop next time? sounds good to me.

--turnipmonster

[Zeno]

'California' has come everywhere. This sytle of play is more the norm than otherwise now and all over the country. Has been for more than just a few months and will continue until poker growth slows some and/or the rake catches up. IMO.

-Zeno

[Barry]

Last night when we put the rock in play, by agreement, you couldn't just leave with the rock. If you were leaving, you had to post the rock on your last hand. If you won that last hand, well that was different...

[Barry]

[ QUOTE ]
doesn't the rock effectively make the game 60-30-60-60?

[/ QUOTE ]

That is true, in theory, however except for 1 hand when it actually was folded to the rock, the game was more like 90/30/60/60

[SheridanCat]

Linda Geenen posted on her blog that the rock is gone. Sounds like there was a little dustup about it.

Regards,

T

[Barry]

The house sort of banned it. What was happening was that some players were being forced into playing in a game with the rock over their objections. A few complained so they took action.

So the way that it worked the other night was, everybody had to agree, and we didn't actually rubber band the chips together. We just used a coin as pseudo kill button to designate who had the rock. The dealers didn't mind.

[bigfishead]

We have the rock in action often at the Horseshoe Tunica 20-40. "I need rubber bands on 11" hollars the dealer!!

with 1 rock in the game it is only a couple hands per round most often that get straddled. Now once you get 3 in there it is a fish fest! It does create action to say the least.

rarely does anyone object, but occasionally they do. Most often if the game has been going that way and a new person doesnt like it...too bad. Thats the game that was going already. However, all must agree when it starts. If there is one objection then dont complain when that person takes the rock out of action.

[Barry]

I took yesterday off from poker and spent the day with Angel Fish.

We got up early this AM and headed down to the poker room to play before my golf outing with JTG51. One of the 30/60 games had 3 rocks in play, with the bonus of 5 chips if 1 player accumulated 3 rocks. I wound up paying 1 guy $150 before I even won a pot. On 1 hand he even played it blind until the river and wound up turning over the winning hand. He would then tip the dealer $200 and put 1 of the rocks into the pot for the next hand. A couple of folks were stuck over 4 racks in that game. I walked away with a small win.

What a game, what a game....

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I must agree fully here. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Clark knows that I prefer LAG games. The rock should just make it more LAGGY than ever. Effectively the rock is just a rock, and not chips, so consider it a somewhat bigger than normal game with somewhat smaller than normal blinds.

Ultimately people play quite badly in these LAGGY games, particularly those who cannot adjust. Any decent player SHOULD be able to figure out how to adjust. I suppose if you can't figure it out, you aren't really a decent player after all. If this type of game scares you, then try GROWING A PAIR ALREADY.

al

[obi---one]

A couple of folks were stuck over 4 racks in that game. What a game, what a game....

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean this doesn't happen to everybody????

[Boris]

[ QUOTE ]
Why anyone would hate the rock is totally beyond my comprehension.

[/ QUOTE ]

The rock slows down the game. You have to play tighter. Bluffing has zero value. You have to be lucky. Your opponents are much more difficult to read.

[Danielih]

The rock rules. If you don't like it then you probably should re evaluate your poker game.

With regard to the quality of games in Vegas. Yeah they are good. The LAGs are not just in LA anymore. But hey, the games are good everywhere now....The daytime may still feature a lot of weak tight passive type of players.

Here is a hand for discussion. I take a seat in a cushy 15/30 game featuring Clarkmeister and Ed Miller. Luckily I am only high and drunk at the time. I decide to post a live straddle UTG. UTG + 1 Coldcalls and its folded around to Clarkmeister on my right in the BB who calls. Flop comes
Q 2 5
check check bet, raise, I reraise all call to the turn
2
check Bet, Call, Raise, thats right Clarkmeister checkraises me, I know the other player to be really awful so I think, is he just trying to get me out to play the other guy heads up. Or are the drugs messing with my brain. I call and so does the other guy. River blanks off, Clarkmeister bets, I call the last guy grudgingly calls and shows his KK which he so smartly decided to coldcall with preflop costing him the pot. I have Q4 for top pair and a solid two outs except now the hand is over so I have no outs. and Clarkmeister shows 26o for a set of deuces baby and he rakes in a small mound of red chips.

I decide I can't beat the 15/30 game I should not leave my house anymore so I've been asleep for the past two weeks.

[Schneids]

Barry I think the type of game you've described as being the "old" typical Vegas games are what Canterbury games in MN play as currently.

[Clarkmeister]

Hey, I was suited in hearts. And I checked the turn dark. Plus, I obnoxiously grabbed and started stacking both your and the other dudes chips from right in front of you before either of you mucked.

You had me beat though as I was merely drunk, not high and drunk. /images/graemlins/smile.gif