A harsh but honest message to all 2+2'ers

[Lawrence Frank]

I have read the advice/topics on this site for about three months now. And overall, I find generally the same individuals repsonding to the the majority of the posts that matter. You know who you are I won't name names. What I find is that responses to honest questions from beginners or intermediates are met with this crass attitude of superiority. The person ending up making to original post which started with an innocent question or comment ends up getting berated or made fun of along that way. Now if this was from casual stray people who make up a screen name and password and stay on for a day and who just respond to belittle i would ignore it. But amazingly, its from the regulars (like i said, you know who you are but are probably in denial).

I made this post for one reason. Because poker players get a bad rap. They are, in general, seen as 'mopes', who waste away their day. They are seen as rude, ignorant and obnoxious by a large portion of society. So when I see rude and obnoxious comments to posts, I think this perception society has of the 'poker player' is substantiated. Please, if you dont believe me, just read some of comments about, for example, how someone played AK wrong (and its always wrong if you didnt play it EXACTLY how the respondent would have liked it). The regulars on this site are so blind to their poor attitudes any responses to this post will probably tell me to "get some balls" or "you whine too much! you cant take constructive criticism"...So please, to all the regular posters, I wont name names for the sake of sparing them from embarrassment..stop acting like "mopes", answer questions cordially, and stop advancing society's stereotypes of the rude ignorant poker player...this is a great site and great resource. Don't ruin it.

[Duke]

Wow are you harsh! It's like needles and pins in my genitals. I can't stop crying.

Then again, maybe I'm jaded. I tend to live on the other side of "the line."

~D

[megabit]

You must be new to online forums. This is the norm for forums on the internet not just 2+2.

[snakehead]

if you were a good player you'd be tough enough to take it.

[TheGrifter]

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/stfu7.jpg

[SheridanCat]

[ QUOTE ]
I made this post for one reason. Because poker players get a bad rap. They are, in general, seen as 'mopes', who waste away their day. They are seen as rude, ignorant and obnoxious by a large portion of society.

[/ QUOTE ]

A large portion of society isn't thinking about poker players. If any portion IS thinking about poker players, they're thinking of the guys they see on television, not you and me.

[ QUOTE ]
So when I see rude and obnoxious comments to posts, I think this perception society has of the 'poker player' is substantiated.

[/ QUOTE ]

The perception is generally a reality. Look around a poker room sometime. Do you see noble, kind, helpful individuals looking out for one another? No.

[ QUOTE ]
Please, if you dont believe me, just read some of comments about, for example, how someone played AK wrong (and its always wrong if you didnt play it EXACTLY how the respondent would have liked it).

[/ QUOTE ]

Please reference the thread in question so we can get an example of what's got you so riled up. Most regular posters here, and many non-regular posters, know that how you play a hand depends on circumstances. I contend that what you've just complained about here didn't happen - that all the regular posters didn't berate the player for playing AK in a way they didn't deem proper. I bet for each "regular" poster, you got a different answer. And, I also would bet, that the original poster probably didn't give enough information for those regular posters to really give a definitive answer about how to play the hand.

[ QUOTE ]
The regulars on this site are so blind to their poor attitudes any responses to this post will probably tell me to "get some balls" (snip) stop acting like "mopes", answer questions cordially

[/ QUOTE ]

So often people post hands that are woefully incomplete, poorly remembered or documented or posted strictly for the poster to crow about how smart and great they are. It gets tiresome reading that stuff. Regular posters here give a huge amount of their time to freely share their experience. If a poster is being habitually rude or nasty, complain to the moderator. I don't think the majority of regular posters could be classified this way.

[ QUOTE ]
and stop advancing society's stereotypes of the rude ignorant poker player...this is a great site and great resource. Don't ruin it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Poker players are, by and large, ignorant and rude. This forum tends to have a much higher percentage of thoughtful, helpful and useful individuals. The actions of the regular posters here won't cover the fact that most poker players found in the world's poker rooms are, indeed, mopes.

I am not a regular poster, just an occasional mope.

Regards,

T

[scrub]

The biggest problem with this site in the past few months is the increased posts and responses in the "prestige" forums from barely mediocre to downright clueless players.

If you think the tone on here is rough, you haven't been to many other discussion boards. The best thing about twoplustwo is that it is moderated and relatively civil.

scrub

[SheridanCat]

Why the heck did I spend so much time typing? That said it all.

Regards,

T

[Lawrence Frank]

[ QUOTE ]
The biggest problem with this site in the past few months is the increased posts and responses in the "prestige" forums from barely mediocre to downright clueless players.

If you think the tone on here is rough, you haven't been to many other discussion boards. The best thing about twoplustwo is that it is moderated and relatively civil.

scrub

[/ QUOTE ]

Ive been on other discussion boards and yes the majority of responses are meant to belittle people..so you are right there..but i like reading about poker, certain hands, theory, and the like, and I get a general tone of the more experienced players being on a pedestal looking down on the newbies...Its almost like i dont want to read the posts anymore..they start out innocent enough with a general and somewhat intelligent question in most instances but then degenerate into more of an insult contest by the (self-proclaimed see above) 'mopes'. So please, just answer the question and stop being defamatory so i can read something civil and dignified. As Charles Barkley would say in those deoderant commercials, "anything less (than what i ask) would be uncivilized."

Fin (french for 'end' or 'the end') (you guys are like the french in a way...rude arrogant and ignorant)

[Lawrence Frank]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/stfu7.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Please Richard Dawson is a symbolizes a man of honor and integrity and would never use the defamatory phrase you propose...if you want to use a game show host with no honor, please settle on Bob Barker (sexually harassed his Barker girls) or Joe Rogan (host of Fear Factor...need I say more)..these men pay very little attention to others feelings...kinda like the regulars on this site

[Ed Miller]

Fin (french for 'end' or 'the end') (you guys are like the french in a way...rude arrogant and ignorant)

Of what are French people ignorant?

[SheridanCat]

[ QUOTE ]
Fin (french for 'end' or 'the end') (you guys are like the french in a way...rude arrogant and ignorant)

Of what are French people ignorant?

[/ QUOTE ]

As I recall from when I was there, deodorant.

[mike l.]

"if you were a good player you'd be tough enough to take it."

for those of you who read this and it came off as a joke and nothing more think again. getting kicked around by the superior players/posters here made me tougher and taught me that serious poker is a big boys game full of obnoxious pricks like snakehead. and im all the better for it.

[BottlesOf]

[ QUOTE ]
Fin (french for 'end' or 'the end') (you guys are like the french in a way...rude arrogant and ignorant)


[/ QUOTE ]

Way to undermine any credibility you may have had.

[Ulysses]

I had never really thought about it like that. I feel really bad and will never be mean again.

[ArchAngel71857]

Of all the posts you respond to, you choose to berate the guy for choosing a pic with Richard Dawson.

the problem with 2+2 isn't that people are mean. It's that you are an idiot.

-AA

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
but i like reading about poker, certain hands, theory, and the like

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its almost like i dont want to read the posts anymore..

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So please, just answer the question and stop being defamatory so i can read something civil and dignified.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lawrence, all I can do at this point is hope that I've done nothing to detract from your enjoyment. If I have, I humbly apologize and hope that you will forgive me.

[Michael Davis]

"Fin (french for 'end' or 'the end') (you guys are like the french in a way...rude arrogant and ignorant)"

This demonstration of wit would have pleased Oscar Wilde.

-Michael

[Rooster71]

[ QUOTE ]
Now if this was from casual stray people who make up a screen name and password and stay on for a day...

[/ QUOTE ]

Lawrence has a grand total of 3 posts. Does anyone else see the irony here?

Lawrence - It appears that either 1) you are easily upset and probably cry alot, OR 2) you have a sort of school teacher-type superiority complex where you feel it is your responsibility to correct others for their actions that don't fit within your personally defined norms. I am quite certain that a 2+2 poll would show that most posters agree with one (or both) of these observations.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

and if you want to be a winning player you better learn to be tough enough.

[Arm187r]

poker is after all a full contact sport /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[2planka]

1) I Agree
2) I Agree

Until "Lawrence" can separate his feelings from his game, he will not be a winning player. Plain and simple. That's one of the first things I learned from this site.

[daveymck]

There was a thread probably 6 months ago where people said the place was getting too friendly, particulary the Limit forums where some of the older posters stated when they were novices they would have new arses ripped by the then regulars when posting badly played hands, rather than taking offense they looked at the advice learned from it and I assume became better players.

This is the internet you have to get a thick skin and a big bullshit detector to survive. I understand Astroglide sells them along with his Pattern Map products, I suggest you purchase both.

In the main this place is pretty friendly and will help people, but when newbies post stupid stuff they will get the replies they deserve.

[Lawrence Frank]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but i like reading about poker, certain hands, theory, and the like

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its almost like i dont want to read the posts anymore..

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So please, just answer the question and stop being defamatory so i can read something civil and dignified.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lawrence, all I can do at this point is hope that I've done nothing to detract from your enjoyment. If I have, I humbly apologize and hope that you will forgive me.

[/ QUOTE ]


Ladies and gentlemen, if you all are dignified enough to receive that title, here is a man of honor and integrity...see quote above. Thank you for that Diablo.

[Lawrence Frank]

[ QUOTE ]
"if you were a good player you'd be tough enough to take it."

for those of you who read this and it came off as a joke and nothing more think again. getting kicked around by the superior players/posters here made me tougher and taught me that serious poker is a big boys game full of obnoxious pricks like snakehead. and im all the better for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

honest evaluation...unfortunately my fear is that the more i hang around the poker players who are 'pricks and snakeheads' i have a fear i will morph into one...you are only a product of your environment...to all...lets make poker a sport of grace, like golf or polo...not some game played by run-down gamblers in New York city cellars looked down upon

[Ray Zee]

we have a great bunch of people posting and reading here. poker players are individualists. and thats that. i wouldnt want to change any of them. carry on fellas and girls.

[Lawrence Frank]

[ QUOTE ]
Of all the posts you respond to, you choose to berate the guy for choosing a pic with Richard Dawson.

the problem with 2+2 isn't that people are mean. It's that you are an idiot.

-AA

[/ QUOTE ]

I like richard dawson. I grew up watching family feud. He appears to be a nice and gracious man and would never choose the heinous acronym posted earlier (i.e. STFU) when he goes to the 'survey!'...speaking of surveys...

Richard to Frank: Tell me something that is rude and ignorant
Frank: the majority of members on 2+2 poker
Richard: SURVEY SAYS!....:::Bing:::
RIchard: Thats the number one answer Frank! Have a lollipop.

[MaxPower]

My feeling about this site is that people tend to get the kind of treatment they deserve.

The vast majority of new posters are welcomed and treated well. There are a few that are not and that is usually because they come in with a certain attitude that people object to. They usually start out by telling us how much money they have made online, that they have a safe full of cash, or some such nonsense.

Sometimes posters insist on holding on to some ideas about poker that are very wrong. You have to be very blunt with them.

[Diplomat]

[ QUOTE ]
...lets make poker a sport of grace, like golf or polo...not some game played by run-down gamblers in New York city cellars looked down upon

[/ QUOTE ]

The irony here is that both of these sports have been holdouts in terms of equal female participation and class distinction.

I do understand what you are suggesting, but it's like trying to make a turkey fly. It's just not in the cards. Poker is about money. It's about taking other people's money and not giving your money to them. It's not about white gloves and tea on Sunday.

-Diplomat

[daveymck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but i like reading about poker, certain hands, theory, and the like

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its almost like i dont want to read the posts anymore..

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So please, just answer the question and stop being defamatory so i can read something civil and dignified.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lawrence, all I can do at this point is hope that I've done nothing to detract from your enjoyment. If I have, I humbly apologize and hope that you will forgive me.

[/ QUOTE ]


Ladies and gentlemen, if you all are dignified enough to receive that title, here is a man of honor and integrity...see quote above. Thank you for that Diablo.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suspect you may need a sarcasm and Irony detector as well. Unless mine is faulty.

[2planka]

Lawrence,

You are not the thought police, but I suspect you're a troll. If you don't like what you're reading here, then don't read this site. Period. Sorry to put it so indelicately, but you have to grow a thick hide when you play poker, and the same is true for posting ANYTHING on ANY internet forum. If you step out of line, the minions will smack you around.

We have a common goal here, which is to improve our poker skills. I, for one, want to know the hard facts of the mistakes I make. I don't want it sugar-coated.

It is always advisable to read the forums before posting. Many newbies just jump right in and, well, get what they deserve. I was one of them. I learned. Now I'm back. No offense taken.

So, lighten up and enjoy this site or find another one more suited to your taste. It's up to you.

[VBM]

You know I've been lambasted more than my share on the forums, but I've also had some nice folks who try to point me in the right direction.

I just try to filter through the sarcasm and PMS'y remarks from the negative posters and try to understand the salient points of the post.

I'm also comforted by the fact that the oft-rude bashers are probably socially-awkward losers who feel empowered to act out their alpha-dog fantasies in a nameless, faceless internet forum...and probably they couldn't get laid in a morgue. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Punker]

The whole idea behind playing poker is not caring what society thinks of you.

[J.A.Sucker]

Don't be such a pussy, you prick.

[J.A.Sucker]

Lawrence,

Poker is a game where only the strong survive. You have to deal with obnoxious people all the time, and everyone is trying to take away your liveliehood, either for entertainment or to support themselves. Additionally, there are a lot of things that are beyond your control, basically, you can be really unlucky for a long time. You need to be able to take this everyday abuse if you have any hope of being a real winner.

As for the boards, the reason that several posters say "how someone played AK wrong" there's a reason: it's "wrong" if it doesn't make the most money. Seldom are there choices that aren't the sole, correct ones in limit poker. If you can't take somebody telling you that you were flat wrong, then you have NO HOPE of getting better. If you want to drop my name as a prick poster, go ahead. I can take it, believe me. At least I won't go broke, unlike the person who won't ever learn the correct plays because he's afraid of getting his feelings hurt.

[Lawrence Frank]

[ QUOTE ]
Lawrence,

If you want to drop my name as a prick poster, go ahead. I can take it, believe me. At least I won't go broke, unlike the person who won't ever learn the correct plays because he's afraid of getting his feelings hurt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh im not worried about going broke, I wouldnt be playing the game if i wasn't in the green. And its not about my feelings primarily. It is about others. Here's an example. I am also a bodybuilder. I followed Arnold S.'s routine to a tee as published in the "encyclopedia of modern bodybuilding." That was when i was 14. Little did i know at the time that the man was on steroids. As oblivious as that may seem, I was young and believed if i worked hard enough i could get his physique with hard work. Needless to say, doing 25 sets for bi's 25 sets for tris and 30 sets for back ALL in one day as recommended in one portion of the book, was serverely overtraining, and my growth was stagnant for 4 years. Then I was corrected as a freshman at my college gym by a genuinely concerned honest and forthright senior. He approached the issue with delicacy yet was to the point. If he had said "your all fu**ed up man, your doing it all wrong" i wouldnt have listened to a word. But he didn't. He was nice about it. And now my physique is all the better for it. And newbies cardplaying, with their brash bankroll opening lines, can be approached in the same manner and their cardplaying will be all the better too. Its all in the introduction. You need finesse, not crudeness. Please take note of this. The poker playing community will be all the better if everyone abides.

[razor]

[ QUOTE ]
He appears to be a nice and gracious man and would never choose the heinous acronym posted earlier (i.e. STFU)

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm... I wasn't aware that Mr. Dawson was permitted to choose the survey results for use on the show.

[oddjob]

[ QUOTE ]
honest evaluation...unfortunately my fear is that the more i hang around the poker players who are 'pricks and snakeheads' i have a fear i will morph into one...you are only a product of your environment...to all...lets make poker a sport of grace, like golf or polo...not some game played by run-down gamblers in New York city cellars looked down upon

[/ QUOTE ]

well, poker isn't a sport of grace, like gold or polo. in fact, it's not a sport at all. it's a game. a game where the objective is to take your opponents money. it is a dirty game, where people drink and smoke and swear and some people even try to cheat. and some people like it this way.

in fact, if it wasn't for all the new fish the popularity of poker has brought in, i can't wait for it to die down a bit. some of the poker stuff i see around is just downright ridiculous.

and honestly, there are a lot of people who just need others to stop the sugar coated responses and tell them straight up what they need to hear. in my mind, having someone respond is best most of the times, and way better then if they didn't give a response at all.

[West]

Don't you coach the New Jersey Nets?

[VBM]

[ QUOTE ]
If you can't take somebody telling you that you were flat wrong, then you have NO HOPE of getting better. If you want to drop my name as a prick poster, go ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that doesn't qualify you as a prick-poster at all. There's a difference btwn analyzing hand play turn-to-turn and saying "NO, this is WRONG! here's why..."
vs.
"God, the stupid-train rolled into the station early today..." or "Your post doesn't belong here, Fish. Don't waste space reserved for deserving posts..."

But Lawrence, seriously, I agree w/ a poster above here; people aren't going to change; it's the nature of the beast.
Some are really cool and write so easily on hard ideas that you wish you could just think as well as they can think & write (e.g. GoT, StellarWind, jtr, etc)
Other guys are just rude & arrogant. But sometimes btwn insults, even they have something important for you to latch onto. Sometimes they're just being mean or spiteful or grouchy or whatever...
Beginners just have to take feedback, think about it, and distill it into something actionable. Or, just discard it as noise or worthless...I think once you're able to do that, you're on the fast track to improvement...

[ericd]

I generally share your viewpoint. I also find it time consuming trying to sift through all the "humor" and "life lessons in toughness" when I'm on this site. However, I think you're wasting your time if you believe you will have more than a minor influence on a few people.

I'm not sure of the cause. I've narrowed it down to being either a function of internet forums in general or the maturity level of the majority of posters. Since I don't give this topic much thought there may well be something else that is the overriding cause. So all I can suggest is if you want to be here you are stuck abiding by the rules here.

[Oski]

The o.p. and subsequent responses by Lawrence seem to be an obvious goof. It seems "his" wish was granted as his post generated a lot of responses.

[SomethingClever]

The ironing is delicious.

[Lawrence Frank]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't you coach the New Jersey Nets?

[/ QUOTE ]

SHH!...dont mention that...i dont need to go through a Pete Rose debacle...I don't bet on my own team either...but let me say this..as bad as you think the Nets are they WILL win this horrid division...

And to the previous poster, whether minor or major influence, if any influence at all I would have made a difference...poker is a sport in my eyes...and a great one at that...I will make a CHANGE with this post. People will listen, i promise.

"I'm starting with the man in the mirror, im asking him to change his ways, and no lesson coulda been any clearer, if you wanna make the world a better place take a look at yourself and make that change, whoo whoo, na na na na na na na na, gonna make a change, its gonna feel real good!"
-Michael Jackson "man in the mirror"

and dont give me this child molestation crap either, these are wise words regardless of the mouth from which they were spewed.

[Lawrence Frank]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He appears to be a nice and gracious man and would never choose the heinous acronym posted earlier (i.e. STFU)

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm... I wasn't aware that Mr. Dawson was permitted to choose the survey results for use on the show.

[/ QUOTE ]

please don't nitpick with me about this...if theres something i know it is these

1) Honor
2) Grace
3) Kindness
4) Trying to make the world a better place
5) Trying to make poker a better game for all
5) Family Feud with Richard Dawson (and if you want to throw in some Ray Combs too go right ahead...i stopped at louie anderson)

Worst Family Feud answer of all time:

Name something you bring to the beach--->answer: Turkey

2nd worst answer of all time

Name something you find in a birdcage--->answer: A hampster

hey the poster above started this with that STFU! reference..i take insult to that.

[Bluffoon]

It would be nice if everyone was more sensitive to other's feelings...

That said, I dont care whether 2+2 posters are nice or not. They know things about poker that I want to learn.

After I'm done learning here if I feel bad I'll call my girlfriend.

[deacsoft]

Well stated, Mr Zee.

[odellthurman]

Michael Jackson is indeed wise. I don't know which is more profound - the whoo whoo or the na na na na na na.

[odellthurman]

Uh oh. I messed up. It was actually 10 na's, not 6. That makes a difference. Do you see why?

[2planka]

Are you for real? I'll have a baggie of whatever Larry's smoking. Grace? What the F does that have to do with poker? Yer cracking me up, man.

I hope you and jacko succeed in changing poker, but why stop there. Change the whole freakin' world. I'm sure your nine posts to this forum can accomplish that.

Sheesh.... I gotta catch my breath... hyperventilating... too dern funny.

[ArchAngel71857]

Lawrence,

Your ignorance is showing.

[ QUOTE ]

1) Honor
2) Grace
3) Kindness
4) Trying to make the world a better place
5) Trying to make poker a better game for all
5) Family Feud with Richard Dawson (and if you want to throw in some Ray Combs too go right ahead...i stopped at louie anderson)


[/ QUOTE ]

1. You have two number 5's.
2. Your first worst Family Feud answer of all time occurred on the British version of the show and was one of many of the contestant's same answers involving Turkey.
3. The worst answer is: "Name something you drink a lot of when you are sick." . . . . "LIQUIDS!"

-AA

[Wayfare]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He appears to be a nice and gracious man and would never choose the heinous acronym posted earlier (i.e. STFU)

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm... I wasn't aware that Mr. Dawson was permitted to choose the survey results for use on the show.

[/ QUOTE ]

please don't nitpick with me about this...if theres something i know it is these

1) Honor
2) Grace
3) Kindness
4) Trying to make the world a better place
5) Trying to make poker a better game for all
5) Family Feud with Richard Dawson (and if you want to throw in some Ray Combs too go right ahead...i stopped at louie anderson)

Worst Family Feud answer of all time:

Name something you bring to the beach--->answer: Turkey

2nd worst answer of all time

Name something you find in a birdcage--->answer: A hampster

hey the poster above started this with that STFU! reference..i take insult to that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you for real? You can't seriously act like that in real life or you would be either ridiculed or punched in the face. Poker is a man's (metaphorically) game, and no amount of whining sissies is going to "make it like polo" or some [censored] like that.

Doubly so that these forums are on the internet, and people say whatever comes to mind because there is no real need for a filter.

I'm sorry to break it to you, but nothing you do is going to change anything about poker or about the world.

And just to give another little taste of how cordial internet forums are:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/gay16.jpg

[ArchAngel71857]

Lawrence,

Here is a helpful tool you will find on the forums.
[ QUOTE ]

*** You are ignoring this user ***


[/ QUOTE ]

-AA

[Topflight]

"Needless to say, doing 25 sets for bi's 25 sets for tris and 30 sets for back ALL in one day as recommended in one portion of the book"

If this is what you got out of Arnold's book you have no chance of being more than a moderately winning poker player, you are incapable of learning.

The fact that you take these responses personally is a huge weakness. The good posters don't have to respond to newbie questions, they don't have to repeat fundamentals over and over again. If making fun of newbs and bad play makes posting a response more enjoyable for them, you better be glad that found a reason to reply.

Just filter for info, don't get emotional. I can't believe you even have to be told these things.

I sure hope that this thread was a joke.

[BonJoviJones]

Clearly a troll.

Okay, I could buy that he doesn't like the forumns. I could buy he thinks people are too harsh.

But throwing the that anti-french line in? Classic troll.

Taking offense to Family Feud? Classic troll.

As far as trolls go, pretty subtle. I give it an A-

[Blarg]

Your gripe is legitimate, and so are the responses saying bad behavior is common all over the internet.

What's silly is the argument that since bad behavior is common, it somehow should be common. Isn't that kind of like when children say they did something stupid because "everyone else was doing it" and get told, "If your friends all jumped off a bridge, would you jump off a bridge?"

But as the saying goes that "Most people live lives of quiet desperation," most people have little outlet for aggression that wouldn't ruin their lives, so instead of dealing with it themselves, you're going to find it comimg out here, where the weak and anonymous can feel powerful and blow off steam. And that's not going to change easily.

I've played various computer games online before, like RTS's and Everquest, and noticed a ferocious snobbery in many of them toward newcomers that winds up being disastrous and helps dry up the community eventually. Players work so hard to chase out other players that they're cutting off their own nose to spite their face, as the game withers and dies because most people don't like being under constant assault from creeps and punks and wondering where all the normal people are.

2+2 isn't nearly that bad, and there are a lot more existing potential and existing poker players than ever got into playing PC games, but still, I have to wonder how smart it is to chase players away by being a jerk or a snob.

New players are like the plankton in the poker ecosystem, providing money for everyone on the food chain, reaching eventually all the way to the sharks and whales. People who get their rocks off trying to chase them away from a forum do the same thing we hate to see table coaches do while we're playing -- get rid of the people you want most, and who the game needs playing even if there's no chance you'll ever see them in your game, because they feed the OTHER fishes higher up the line that eventually fill your belly.

I think the people who encourage them to stay and feel good about the potential of getting into poker and having a good time do themselves and everyone else a favor, and the people who are rude are at the very least short-sighted.

You can make perfectly good responses without being rude, and the assertion that being nasty to posters and players asking questions is "for their own good" is a transparently disingenuous cover story. A one-off silly remark is one thing, but consistent jabs at anyone new trying to enter the community and have some fun and profit by it shows not only a failure of character, which a lot of people don't care about or understand, but a failure of imagination. The same imagination rude posters often seem to feel they're being clever with. Coming up with an insult is easy -- no challenge compared to coming up with a productive answer.

Anyway, the internet will never be totally rudeness and stupidity-free, but that's no reason to celebrate that behavior or assert that it's actually productive in any way whatsoever. I doubt there has ever been a person on the internet who has never been insulted before and is therefore learning a valuable life lesson due to the kindness of the jerky remarks of some internet punk. 2+2 will never be a perfect environment, but it's both better and worse than some. Ideally, everyone should have a thick skin, and ideally, they shouldn't need it quite so much. The "beat up the newbie" competitions aren't nearly as productive as the help that encourages him to stay around, play more, and tell his friends.

[dakine]

Lawrence Frank; Are you a "Masochist?" You knew what kind of reaction you would receive by posting this Turd.

Hook up with Paul Phillips, he is more of your type. Or..., are you really Paul Phillips in disguise. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Lawrence Frank]

[ QUOTE ]
"Needless to say, doing 25 sets for bi's 25 sets for tris and 30 sets for back ALL in one day as recommended in one portion of the book"

If this is what you got out of Arnold's book you have no chance of being more than a moderately winning poker player, you are incapable of learning.

The fact that you take these responses personally is a huge weakness. The good posters don't have to respond to newbie questions, they don't have to repeat fundamentals over and over again. If making fun of newbs and bad play makes posting a response more enjoyable for them, you better be glad that found a reason to reply.

Just filter for info, don't get emotional. I can't believe you even have to be told these things.

I sure hope that this thread was a joke.

[/ QUOTE ]


Let me assure you i am not joking... i did not go on my initial diatribe to futhur some juvenile prank. I am here to change poker for the better...change this forum, change attitudes and change perspectives...I think pop culture (i.e. Tv radio movies and the like) are good references for real life situations...thats why i defend richard dawson, quote michael jackson, and reference the british version of family feud (i knew this Mr. Previous Poster who pointed this out, i dont have to relegate "worst Family feud answers of all time" strictly to the American version)...if i can make one person viewing this post, and not even responding, kinder at the table, not as brash in making a raise like josh arieh, or start screaming like a maimed llama like Mattius Anderson when you win a hand, then i have done well and my deed for the day is done. Think of it like the scene in the "grinch who stole christmas" where he is on the snow capped mountaintop and all the presents are going to fall into oblivion, but his heart grows and grows until it bursts with love kindness and consideration. That is a world we all should strive to live in...where everyone has a bursting heart (not a heart attack but of love) ...and that my friends is a poker table i would like to sit down with you at and play a civilized wonderful game of cards.

[Blarg]

It's cool that everyone does their part, but nobody's going to change the world all by themselves either.

It's enough to try not to make things any worse. Actually pretty huge.

[andyfox]

"I made this post for one reason. Because poker players get a bad rap. They are, in general, seen as 'mopes', who waste away their day. They are seen as rude, ignorant and obnoxious by a large portion of society."

I don't think it's a bad rap. It's fact. Many poker players play poker because they're too out of whack to make a go in other jobs where they'd have to be sociable.

Having said that, there are plenty of nice people here who can make their points while being nice. I don't think there's a higher percentage of jerks here than anywhere else.

When you have to tell someone to be nice, it's usually a waste of time.

[Turning Stone Pro]

There are plenty of nice folks on this site like myself, El Diablo, and Buckshot.

There are a lot of bad apples on the site who offer nothing but insults and questionable advice, and I guess we just have to deal with those folks.

TSP

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
When you have to tell someone to be nice, it's usually a waste of time.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's a keeper

[Lawrence Frank]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He appears to be a nice and gracious man and would never choose the heinous acronym posted earlier (i.e. STFU)

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm... I wasn't aware that Mr. Dawson was permitted to choose the survey results for use on the show.

[/ QUOTE ]

please don't nitpick with me about this...if theres something i know it is these

1) Honor
2) Grace
3) Kindness
4) Trying to make the world a better place
5) Trying to make poker a better game for all
5) Family Feud with Richard Dawson (and if you want to throw in some Ray Combs too go right ahead...i stopped at louie anderson)

Worst Family Feud answer of all time:

Name something you bring to the beach--->answer: Turkey

2nd worst answer of all time

Name something you find in a birdcage--->answer: A hampster

hey the poster above started this with that STFU! reference..i take insult to that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you for real? You can't seriously act like that in real life or you would be either ridiculed or punched in the face. Poker is a man's (metaphorically) game, and no amount of whining sissies is going to "make it like polo" or some [censored] like that.

Doubly so that these forums are on the internet, and people say whatever comes to mind because there is no real need for a filter.

I'm sorry to break it to you, but nothing you do is going to change anything about poker or about the world.

And just to give another little taste of how cordial internet forums are:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/gay16.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

THANKS FOR THE PIC WAYFARE! Michael Knight and Arnold Jackson making a cameo appearance with Kit! Could you get a triple header better than this...now technically since you all know me pretty well by now...your going to know that I know that Arnold Jackson's name is technically Arnold Drummond...In on of the later and most heartfelt episodes of 'different strokes' Arnold and Willis gave Mr. Drummond a wonderful gift...whether it was lack of funds because Arnold had all his lunch money stolen by 'the gooch' (where's willis when you need him!) or just overflowing love for their adoptive father, both boys decided they would call Mr. Drummond 'Dad' and take his last name..now i dont know if in the script they ironed out all the technicalities of taking a last name, but you get the point. It was a wonderful gesture and if it werent for you Wayfare, I wouldnt have been reminded of that heartfelt moment in TV history...just beautiful...I can see changes in this site already...El Diablo made had a wonderful response to me before and now Wayfare offers me a gift saying its a great post...this is what i was looking for when coming to 2+2...a gracious sophisticated crowd ready to welcome and guided new members...boys you are on your way!

[Lawrence Frank]

[ QUOTE ]
Clearly a troll.

Okay, I could buy that he doesn't like the forumns. I could buy he thinks people are too harsh.

But throwing the that anti-french line in? Classic troll.

Taking offense to Family Feud? Classic troll.

As far as trolls go, pretty subtle. I give it an A-

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the deal with the 'troll' comment? All i think of you is some sort of Gandalf looking creature from Lord of the rings trying to type with his staff. I have never been called a troll. I dont know if i should take offense. Am I on the wrong site. Is this 2+2.com or just 2+2.com masquerading as DungeonsandDragons.com...maybe its a compliment...if so thanks man!

[Talk2BigSteve]

Have you ever heard the BS that is spat out at a live B&M game??? 2+2 posters are kind in comparison. I am new to posting on here but I have learned to sort through the fluff to find the "NUTS" and this have improved my game. And some of the off comments and slams that I learn here I take with me to the B&M and use them to send the "better than I" players on tilt which helps my bank account just fine.

In 2+2 you just have to take it and give it, but please don't cry on the felt. People here will end asking 2 questions.

1. "Do you have the Nuts?"

or

2. "What did you say to make Granny mace you?"


Living, Learning, and Laughing
Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Topflight]

haha, I can just picture this troll laughing his as off as he sits there pretending Michael Knight, Arnold Drummond, and Kit are an awesome triple header.

Troll. You are going to have to tone the gay down a bit, it is becoming unrealistic.

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
You know who you are I won't name names. What I find is that responses to honest questions from beginners or intermediates are met with this crass attitude of superiority.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you like being so blunt and forward with this post, I'll respond with the same sword. You obviously have never visited other forums with a regular subcriber and poster base? Slander, insults, demeaning statements, slanderous humor are a part of the nature of many forums. Visit the IGN forums and you'll just how stupid and pathetic some people truly are trying to gather +1 post counts. 2+2 has it's share, but for the most part it is a forum where many people do participate on a more intellectual level, provided that the original poster him/herself is somewhat intellectual. And yes, most of the time it is the regulars who do this, but the percentage is still small and the quality of the posts that do matter is incredibly high compared to a lot of the junk. Just learn to search and ignore the crap mmmmkkkaaayyy??

[ QUOTE ]
I made this post for one reason. Because poker players get a bad rap. They are, in general, seen as 'mopes', who waste away their day. They are seen as rude, ignorant and obnoxious by a large portion of society. So when I see rude and obnoxious comments to posts, I think this perception society has of the 'poker player' is substantiated.

[/ QUOTE ]

We'll some poker players are mopes who raking in more money than some Wall Street brokers can right now..so who's the mope?

But that's the problem right? You see everything on the outside. Ironically perception blinds you to the truth. If you learn to filter through the junk, you will find a vast array of information on this board that is literally money in your pockets.

Personally, I don't give a 2 cents rats butt about what you or society thinks about me. I'm a cable engineer by profession and I work outside in the cold, rain, sun, snow. I work in dirty conditions, and though my work isn't very labourous, it's kinda physical. And there's not a day that I don't love it. I drive an older beat up van, and my clothes are sloppy and I look like a bum most of the time. But I contribute a lot to society, 95 percent of my customers are happy to see me, and I get very well to do what I love. On top of that I have a wonderful investment in poker that makes me almost as much money as I do on my job. When I go out with my friends I don't have to worry about paying or whether or not the meal is too much. I don't have to worry about whether or not I can afford Canucks season tickets (though the NHL is on strike!!! FAGS!). In short, I'm financially happy and I don't give a [censored] about what society perceives about me and my beat up van and my bum looks!! /images/graemlins/mad.gif

Your post seriously pisses me off because you come here with a very biased view about the posters on this board, the way you think this board should be run without having even having perhaps probably doing enough reading first. You focus heavily on the negatives of this board, but fail to realize there's a lot of gold in this pile of dirt.

Go back to your false sense of image where you think pretending to be cool and popular still will make you happy.

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
I had never really thought about it like that. I feel really bad and will never be mean again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Diablo,

Quit cracking me up... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Lawrence, all I can do at this point is hope that I've done nothing to detract from your enjoyment. If I have, I humbly apologize and hope that you will forgive me.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Ladies and gentlemen, if you all are dignified enough to receive that title, here is a man of honor and integrity...see quote above. Thank you for that Diablo.

[/ QUOTE ]

BWHAHAHAHA!!!!

[slavic]

[ QUOTE ]
"if you were a good player you'd be tough enough to take it."

for those of you who read this and it came off as a joke and nothing more think again. getting kicked around by the superior players/posters here made me tougher and taught me that serious poker is a big boys game full of obnoxious pricks like snakehead. and im all the better for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Truer words were never written.

[BonJoviJones]

[ QUOTE ]
What's the deal with the 'troll' comment? All i think of you is some sort of Gandalf looking creature from Lord of the rings trying to type with his staff. I have never been called a troll. I dont know if i should take offense. Am I on the wrong site. Is this 2+2.com or just 2+2.com masquerading as DungeonsandDragons.com...maybe its a compliment...if so thanks man!

[/ QUOTE ]

That lame cover job just dropped your grade to a low B. It'd be a C+, but you continually get replies.

You can still get an A, but I'd require at least a hundred total replies and no more lame replies.

[bunky9590]

If I hadn't gotten ripped by some of the more "respected" posters on here (Diablo, mike l., Zee, Mason, Flynn, ML4L, scrub, Clark, Ed Miller, dynasty, turnipmonster, and several others (don't feel slighted, the list is too long and distinguished)) I wouldn't be half the player I am today.

It didn't offend me, I'm thankful this crew took time out of their day to respond to my post and rip me when it needed doing so. So, you want golf and polo status? Go play bridge with Lady Peabody on Saturday nights and have tea and scones. Because, poker is what it is. Its all about the money for the big boys. Competition is a very close second.

Have a nice day.

Bunky

[sublime]

bunky-

you fcking suck

please feel free to add me to your next list

[Lawrence Frank]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's the deal with the 'troll' comment? All i think of you is some sort of Gandalf looking creature from Lord of the rings trying to type with his staff. I have never been called a troll. I dont know if i should take offense. Am I on the wrong site. Is this 2+2.com or just 2+2.com masquerading as DungeonsandDragons.com...maybe its a compliment...if so thanks man!

[/ QUOTE ]

That lame cover job just dropped your grade to a low B. It'd be a C+, but you continually get replies.

You can still get an A, but I'd require at least a hundred total replies and no more lame replies.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt know i was getting a grade!(please enlighten me...what is a troll?) /images/graemlins/confused.gif...even if i get an F from you, but you are cordial in the poker room, my work here was well worth it...You see you are all beautiful people to me...sort of like the monarch butterfly...you start out as a larve slithering around on your bellies picking off newbies like larvae eat leaves off trees...poker is a mean game, a game of mopes, cheaters and duplicitous beings..then you become fat and move on to the higher limit games slowing down your play till you get only premium hands...your belly is big young larvae, you are well fed with winnings...finally you become frustrated with a losing streak and you just want to roll up into a a big ball and die even quit the game...that bastard(excuse my french (its not really french but ferris bueller calls curses 'french' in ferris beuller's day off)) caught a runner runner backdoor straight on you cracked your pocket aces and he should die...(yes thats right! you guessed it! your in the cacoon at this point)...but then as i would like to see it, and the whole purpose of this post for me, is that you emerge from your cacoon a beautiful monarch butterfly ready to spread your wings...you love the game, you dont see it as a seedy experience trying to steal peoples money but a game of wits and expertise...before you know it, your bankroll is large and you are ready to fly off into the sunset...fly monarch butterfly, fly as high as you can!...perhaps you think this post is dripping with sarcasm...its not...i want you to engage in a METAMORPHASIS (treat that as the 'Word of the day' from Chairy on Pee-Wee's Playhouse...tap into your youth butterflys, you remember chairy the talking light blue chair)...and when your metamorphasis is finished you will see me in the poker room...wave to me..and graciously thank me for giving you a new perspective on how to treat this wonderful sport...we are men of grace, men of honor...the few, the proud, the poker players (no disrespect to our armed forces...we love you)

[bunky9590]

I still love you buddy. In a manly sort of way.

But......

I'll add you to the list when you stop folding to my ever loving turn checkraises like a little girl. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Have a nice day. Shoot me a PM sometime.

[sublime]

I'll add you to the list when you stop folding to my ever loving turn checkraises like a little girl.

lol, do you have me mixed up with another sublime? i dont think we have ever been in a hand together.

[Lawrence Frank]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


We'll some poker players are mopes who raking in more money than some Wall Street brokers can right now..so who's the mope?

But that's the problem right? You see everything on the outside. Ironically perception blinds you to the truth. If you learn to filter through the junk, you will find a vast array of information on this board that is literally money in your pockets.

Personally, I don't give a 2 cents rats butt about what you or society thinks about me. I'm a cable engineer by profession and I work outside in the cold, rain, sun, snow. I work in dirty conditions, and though my work isn't very labourous, it's kinda physical. And there's not a day that I don't love it. I drive an older beat up van, and my clothes are sloppy and I look like a bum most of the time. But I contribute a lot to society, 95 percent of my customers are happy to see me, and I get very well to do what I love. On top of that I have a wonderful investment in poker that makes me almost as much money as I do on my job. When I go out with my friends I don't have to worry about paying or whether or not the meal is too much. I don't have to worry about whether or not I can afford Canucks season tickets (though the NHL is on strike!!! FAGS!). In short, I'm financially happy and I don't give a [censored] about what society perceives about me and my beat up van and my bum looks!! /images/graemlins/mad.gif

Your post seriously pisses me off because you come here with a very biased view about the posters on this board, the way you think this board should be run without having even having perhaps probably doing enough reading first. You focus heavily on the negatives of this board, but fail to realize there's a lot of gold in this pile of dirt.

Go back to your false sense of image where you think pretending to be cool and popular still will make you happy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Young engineer, I dont want to search for gold...i want gold to be handed to me..i love 2+2 ...but as i said, after reading post after post the attitudes of regulars (who are mainly at fault here) started degenerating like an old pumpkin being eaten away after being left in cold for a month after halloween...i dont want that anymore...i want love and kindness...a brotherly responsibility to each poker player without harsh criticism...me and you will have to work on this wardrobe business...to be taken seriously as men of sport, we cannot look slovenly...i'd be happy to provide you with some armani/exchange top and slacks ideas for your new look...as a matter of fact...tune into E! Entertainments, "The Look for Less" tonight at ten..its hosted by Elisabeth Hasselback (wife of Matt Hasselback of the Seattle Seahawks)...she with CORDIALLY present you with some new wardrobe ideas...dont take offense..i think of you no less as a man or a poker player just because you dont dress neat as you admitted...I just think that if we are going to "wear the white gloves" in unison we must be dressed appropriately to do so...no more phil hellmuth windbreakers with an old black beat up polo hat...no, my fellow poker players will make the cover of Cosmopolitan (if your a woman) and the inside flap if your a man

[Lawrence Frank]

[ QUOTE ]
haha, I can just picture this troll laughing his as off as he sits there pretending Michael Knight, Arnold Drummond, and Kit are an awesome triple header.

Troll. You are going to have to tone the gay down a bit, it is becoming unrealistic.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel an overwhelming sense of responsibility to respond to each poster for whatever reason but this man is taking me as a joke...for the record...i love different strokes...i loved knight rider and i loved kit michael knight aronld (jackson or drummond as explained before willis (jackson or drummond) Mr. drummond and the whole bunch...the words of wisdom are in the theme to Different strokes my boys..

Everybodys got a special kind of story
Everybody finds a way to shiiiiiiiiiiiine
But no matter what you got
Its not alot in this world
Hell have his
Youll have yours
And Ill have mine
and together well be fine
Cause it takes Different strokes to move the world
yes it does
it takes different strokes to move the woooooooorld

kinda like our chips at the table...he'll have his, youll have yours and ill have mine, and together MEN...WELL BE FINE...pop culture...i love it...life lessons in a show i used to watch while eating Trix cereal...my heart is overflowing with emotion

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
I still love you buddy. In a manly sort of way.


[/ QUOTE ]

Would you two like get a room please?

[Rooster71]

[ QUOTE ]
I think pop culture (i.e. Tv radio movies and the like) are good references for real life situations...thats why i defend richard dawson, quote michael jackson, and reference the british version of family feud.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good example of what is wrong in the US today.

If you feel that you need to crusade, then there are much better causes where you can focus your attention. But if "pop culture" is a guiding factor, then any crusade upon which you may embark is a lost cause anyway.

[Rooster71]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
haha, I can just picture this troll laughing his as off as he sits there pretending Michael Knight, Arnold Drummond, and Kit are an awesome triple header.

Troll. You are going to have to tone the gay down a bit, it is becoming unrealistic.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel an overwhelming sense of responsibility to respond to each poster for whatever reason but this man is taking me as a joke...for the record...i love different strokes...i loved knight rider and i loved kit michael knight aronld (jackson or drummond as explained before willis (jackson or drummond) Mr. drummond and the whole bunch...the words of wisdom are in the theme to Different strokes my boys..

Everybodys got a special kind of story
Everybody finds a way to shiiiiiiiiiiiine
But no matter what you got
Its not alot in this world
Hell have his
Youll have yours
And Ill have mine
and together well be fine
Cause it takes Different strokes to move the world
yes it does
it takes different strokes to move the woooooooorld

kinda like our chips at the table...he'll have his, youll have yours and ill have mine, and together MEN...WELL BE FINE...pop culture...i love it...life lessons in a show i used to watch while eating Trix cereal...my heart is overflowing with emotion

[/ QUOTE ]

Lawrence, here is some advice: Put down the crack pipe, take a deep breath and relax, put everything into perspective.

[Lawrence Frank]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think pop culture (i.e. Tv radio movies and the like) are good references for real life situations...thats why i defend richard dawson, quote michael jackson, and reference the british version of family feud.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good example of what is wrong in the US today.



[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt know the majority of the US watched the British version of family feud! This man seems very down in the dumps...to cheer you up I will tap into more of my "worst answers ever" from the classic gameshow.

Name something you leave on all night----->Answer: your shoes
Name something you've always wanted to try but never had the nerve to do-----> Take a mudbath
Name a fruit that is red--->An Orange
Name a state that is known for its warm weather----> Alaska

These are actual answers in the lightning round people!...i know i have cheered you up sir...before you were berating family feud saying its all thats wrong with the world but now you are laughing, even possibly having an asthma attack from the hilarity(i hope you dont have asthma sir!)... richard dawson is a fine pop culture reference...give him a chance...all i am sayyyying is give Richard dawson (and peace too) a chance....all i am sayyyyying is give Richard Dawson a chance (and peace too) a chance...all i am sayyyyying is give Richard Dawson a chance (and peace too) a chance

[Monty Cantsin]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, the internet will never be totally rudeness and stupidity-free, but that's no reason to celebrate that behavior or assert that it's actually productive in any way whatsoever.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's pretty obvious to me that rudeness serves a crucial function within online communities as a limit on unchecked growth and a kind of selection pressure that can help maintain a healthy signal to noise ratio in message traffic, assbreath.

/mc

[Blarg]

LOL.

[johnnybeef]

for those of you who read this and it came off as a joke and nothing more think again. getting kicked around by the superior players/posters here made me tougher and taught me that serious poker is a big boys game full of obnoxious pricks like snakehead. and im all the better for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

honest evaluation...unfortunately my fear is that the more i hang around the poker players who are 'pricks and snakeheads' i have a fear i will morph into one...you are only a product of your environment...to all...lets make poker a sport of grace, like golf or polo...not some game played by run-down gamblers in New York city cellars looked down upon

[/ QUOTE ]


I appreciate your enthusiasm for wanting to give poker a better image. However, in order to be a successful player one must have a killer instinct. The reality of the situation is that you will not find any player worth his salt that doesn't have an intense hellfire that burns deeply within themselves. Good players are called sharks for a reason, because much like a shark they prey upon lesser beings. It is because of this that poker will never have a reputation similar to golf or polo.

[Monty Cantsin]

[ QUOTE ]
Good players are called sharks for a reason, because much like a shark they prey upon lesser beings. It is because of this that poker will never have a reputation similar to golf or polo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly, I think the quality you are describing is necessary for playing any game at a high level whether it's poker, golf, scrabble or charades. I also think that this stylized and hyper-attenuated form of the human instinct to kill one's enemies and/or prey (which is to actual lethal enmity what opium is to poppy seeds) is not incompatible with a conscientious adherence to courtesy, etiquette, and decorum, cuntmuffin.

/mc

[BonJoviJones]

[ QUOTE ]
for those of you who read this and it came off as a joke and nothing more think again.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are wrong. I'm not saying it's impossible for someone to think 2+2 is too tough, but this guys isn't one of them.

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
poker is after all a full contact sport /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It is when Klingons play.

[Lawrence Frank]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Lawrence, all I can do at this point is hope that I've done nothing to detract from your enjoyment. If I have, I humbly apologize and hope that you will forgive me.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Ladies and gentlemen, if you all are dignified enough to receive that title, here is a man of honor and integrity...see quote above. Thank you for that Diablo.

[/ QUOTE ]

BWHAHAHAHA!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

My Monarchs, I have done advanced research on this thread to substantiate my claims...2+2 should be a place of reason, logic, a forum of advanced ideas, a dialectic of sorts, for all young and old to have amicable exchanges. That is my 2+2 Utopia. But now i must implicate someone. Unfortunately it is because of individuals like "Lawrence Ng" that this site is brought down to the decrepid dregs of online forums. You all have seen the posts he posted on my site(derogatory)...now let me show you a thread from others...

The Texas Holdem index "My Worst Bad Beat Ever"
here is the following opening thread and answer from Lawrence.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

what is the worst bad beat that you have ever taken? please share. mine was when i had TT and the flop came ten high. on a cash game, a loose player called my all in(a large one) with bottom pair and a 6 high backdoor flush draw with 8 6 ... i was mad...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This is such a serious injustice. Did you tell the cardroom manager that perhaps this player was cheating? Or maybe this player had some psychic powers that could determine the outcome of the cards? I can't believe this. I've never in my years of playing cards seen a bad beat like this and I can only imagine what it must feel like for you. You have my deepest sympathies brother. I hope you will recover soon... May god have mercy on the suckout's soul.

FIN (French for the end of Ng Rudeness)

You see ladies and gentlemen, it is people like this that like to drag individuals down to their level. Granted the original post wasnt all that bad of a bad beat, but why defame, why insult, why patronize. I will not achieve my Poker Utopia if an attitude such as this thrives. What really bothers me is Mr. Ng's Cartoonish handle. It is Calvin. Perhaps Mr. Ng was a troubled youth, a Dennis the Menice of sorts, and he likes to role play online to imitate this childlike mentality. Mr. Ng, I have one question for you, where is your Hobbes?... Your Hobbes is noticeably missing? Perhaps, you are trying to tell everyone at 2+2 something is missing. Perhaps a bankroll, perhaps that extra skill at the table, even a new wardrobe as you stated earlier. What is missing, Mr. Ng, we here at 2+2 are reaching out to you, I am reaching out to you? As you know pop culture can help. Perhaps a few shows of Oprah, or her spinoff Dr. Phil. Maybe even Dr. Ruth if something is lacking in 'other' areas (she has a daily show on satellite radio). whatever it is there is a cure and when you receive the cure your kindness will overflow and we will all wear the white gloves of friendship here at 2+2..join me in the following song my 2+2's, we will be all the better for it.

"we are the world.....we are the children...we are the ones to make better day so lets start giving...we are the world ...we are the children ...we are the ones to make a better day just you and me"

Join us Ng, sing with us...when you are finished we will all embrace you...But for now Where is your tiger Calvin....where is your tiger????

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
You see ladies and gentlemen, it is people like this that like to drag individuals down to their level. Granted the original post wasnt all that bad of a bad beat, but why defame, why insult, why patronize. I will not achieve my Poker Utopia if an attitude such as this thrives. What really bothers me is Mr. Ng's Cartoonish handle. It is Calvin. Perhaps Mr. Ng was a troubled youth, a Dennis the Menice of sorts, and he likes to role play online to imitate this childlike mentality. Mr. Ng, I have one question for you, where is your Hobbes?... Your Hobbes is noticeably missing? Perhaps, you are trying to tell everyone at 2+2 something is missing. Perhaps a bankroll, perhaps that extra skill at the table, even a new wardrobe as you stated earlier. What is missing, Mr. Ng, we here at 2+2 are reaching out to you, I am reaching out to you? As you know pop culture can help. Perhaps a few shows of Oprah, or her spinoff Dr. Phil. Maybe even Dr. Ruth if something is lacking in 'other' areas (she has a daily show on satellite radio). whatever it is there is a cure and when you receive the cure your kindness will overflow and we will all wear the white gloves of friendship here at 2+2..join me in the following song my 2+2's, we will be all the better for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am truly humbled by the length of this response. Truly.

[rloftin]

WHY