5-10 Hand..What would you do?

Hello Again Everybody,


Stopped by Mohegan Sun and played in my least favorite stud limit. (5-10) I originally only jumped in cause it was the only seat in the house, I stayed in the game cause the lineup was FANTASTIC!!!!!! Unfortunately I took it up hard in the rear-end with no lubrication cause I had a 54 BB loss in 4 hours of play. ( worst session of year )


Anywhoo, Here is a hand to talk about!


Game was VERY PASSIVE with lots of calling stations and pay-offers( typical Connecticut 5-10 game ) There was 1 player who I would consider to be very good however. I was having a VERY difficult time trying to figure out opponents playing styles, well cause THEY couldn't figure that out for themselves...


3rd street

-----------

4s to my immediate left brings it in for $2

Jc calls

9c calls

10s calls ( good player )

7h calls

4h calls

kh calls

(8c8d)Ad ME... calls

4th Street

----------------

4s7c

JcJd --BETS $10 double bet

9c9s -- Calls

10s10h -- Calls( good player )

7hAs -- Folds

4hQs -- Folds

kh2c -- Folds

(8c8d)Ad8s ME


Whats my play.. Results to follow tommorow..


Later,


CJ

I'd give up on this hand.


If these players are playing with even a minimal amount of logic then this is what they are saying.


JcJd: I have at least pair of Jacks. I'm betting.


9c9s: I can either beat a pair of Jacks or have a strong draw against it.


10s10h: I can beat beat whatever draw those 9's have.


Only one of these three players needs to have trips in order for you to be in a very bad spot. The pot is small. Fold.

Fold, release the hand! There are three possible trips out there larger then trip 8s you've only $3 invested. Muck it, next hand please! I know it hurts but if you play this hand consistently over a long period of time I think your looking at a long term loser regardless the outcome of this individual hand.

CJ,


3rd street

-----------

4s to my immediate left brings it in for $2

Jc calls

9c calls

10s calls ( good player )

7h calls

4h calls

kh calls

(8c8d)Ad ME... calls


Third street I would of raised to try and eliminate all the non-pair limpers with the two-flushes etc. Then 4th street would of been easier to play IMO.


paul

Get a crayon and mark in 7 more spots on the ace. (use magenta on plastic cards).


Seriously.. dump it and live another day.


BTW... I love the sun.

oen of them most likely has trips and all are higher than yours. so you should fold, unless there is some reason to think that none of them have it.


Note that yours is hidden and if the jacks bet caused the other two to fold then you could play on if the situation was right. but in reality this will rarely happen.


Pat

that will rarely happen if ever at the games in connecticut. at most youmight knock out two, but will play the hand with five players and a much bigger pot. calling is the correct play in these games.


Pat

Ad up no diamonds out no A's and you say it will only drop 2. I doubt just 2 I would say 4.

... you have to know your players. In my home game (also 5-10), for example, it's likely that in this example NONE of those three players would have trips, because everybody raises their pairs at third street. So, know your players. If these guys are the sort who would only call with pairs of jacks, tens, etc. on third street, then folding is the best play.


I also agree with earlier posts saying you should have raised on third street. In my (admittedly limited) casino experience, live Ace with a live pocket pair is an automatic raise. Amongst the many good reasons to do this is that if your opponent pairs his door card, you can throw away your hand with less agonizing because you know he already had something to call someone who was representing Aces.

I agree Drone. Bad player will play this hand and win with a low full house or catch the case 8 and think they are great players. This is a negative expectation hand and a fold is correct.

Expecting four low limit players to fold on 3rd street after they've limped for $2 and only have to call a raise of $3 more is ridiculous. Not including the bring-in, I would be surprised if more than 1 player folded to a 3rd street raise.


Assuming a player correctly limped for $2, how could it possibly be correct for them to fold for $3 more in a bigger pot? And even if it were correct, why would you believe that they are going to play correctly?

Obviously your raises don't mean much with an A. Sorry I thought you guys played tite.

I expect more thougtful responses from a 2+2 author.


Your analysis that Ad up no diamonds out no A's and you say it will only drop 2. I doubt just 2 I would say 4. is completely ignoring the typical game conditions of 5-10 stud.


Sorry I thought you guys played tite.


This is also very poor analysis. When considering whether raising will knock playes out, it is irrelevent how we play. What is relevent is how our opponents play. And they will not fold on 3rd street for just $3 more. Assuming our hero had (A,8)A, it would probably still be better to just call the bring-in on 3rd street and go for a check-raise on 4th to narrow the field.


I don't mind being insulted. But, if you going to do it, I'd appreciate it if you spent some time coming up with more creative insults. Even a 6th grader can make immature masturbation jokes. Don't you consider yourself above that kind of dialog?

you are just wrong when it comes to the connecticut games. my experience has always been that players who limp will almost always call at these limits. And if they have a decent hand they may not even be making a mistake to do so.


Pat

Hey again,


Well I see that my little post caused a minor scuffle. That certainly wasn't my intention.


To set the record straight... Almost No one will drop if I raise with that hand when everyone has limped in. I was in last position and most everyone will call an additional $3 to see 4th. That is one ( of many ) reasons I normally don't like to play 5-10.


Well I DID FOLD!!!!! I wasn't too thrilled about it, but I did.


Here's the kicker, I folded the best hand!


JJ had pocket 55 and bet till 5th when he got raised by the good player with 1010. ( 99 folded on 5th to the first bet ) JJ called all the way down.


Good player with 1010 had (JJ) in hole.

Both players went unimproved and good player won the pot.


Later,


CJ

Hey Dynasty,


I'm no author that's John Feeney.


You opened the insults I closed them that's all. Your saying that only the bring in drops 4s. What about the 9c, 7h, & 4h. If all these players call then I agree with you Dynasty. But I also agree I should either look for another game or play tighter to get respect for the A. I've also played in 5-10 games in FW&MS and the games I played in were never that loose. This sounds more like a home game if everybody calls rather than a casino game to me.


Have a nice day Dynasty!!!!!


3rd street

-----------

4s to my immediate left brings it in for $2

Jc calls

9c calls

10s calls ( good player )

7h calls

4h calls

kh calls

(8c8d)Ad ME... calls

One thing I've learned over the past couple of years is to have a healthy respect for paired door cards. I agree with the panel that this is probably a muck, but if you can determine that no one has trips, then of course you play (and most likely raise).


I believe that most people will raise with a split pair of Jacks on third street. Many people will raise with a split pair of Tens. Some people will raise with a split pair of Nines. You might use the fact that none of these players raised on third street to conclude that they don't have trips.


Some people will raise right away on fourth if they have trips. The fact that neither the Nines nor the Tens did raise might lead you to conclude that they don't have trips.


The bottom line is that you have to know your opponents. If you're playing against strangers, you probably have to give it up. Against certain known quantities, I'd be inclined to play on.

Oops. Apologies to John Feeney.

Andy,


That's why I posted in my original post that I was having a difficult time determaining my opponents play. ( Something I am normally very good at ) Almost all were inconsistant with their play.


Later,


CJ

I feel that in most cases to fold may have been the right move


However, I think the hint was that no one raised on third which a good player may have

wanted to do early with a big pr. ( to limit the field). of course with 2 overlords behind

them I can see why they didn’t. you could of slammed them one with the big up card on

3rd and took out the trash. which would of changed every thing. but as is a raise for

information may be in order especially on a perfect catch to a hidden pair. at least you get

to 5th street with a aggressive image or can make a decision if RRed. you could probably

got a freebie on 5th or might have won it right there.


Herein lies a big mistake that players make which is staying in with 2 pair against a

raising overcard when a seemingly innocuous card falls. However, the solid play is more

than likely the laydown as your side card (the A) was visibly hampered.


I feel this was a weak play from the TT and should be noted as pacifistic on his part. I

would wonder if he was afraid of the A in your hand and thats why the over call from him.

this could be taken as another clue to his weakness or deceptiveness( I mean its already a

large bet. if he is representing trips or has them why wouldn’t he pop it. he has no reason

to wait till fifth). but you couldn’t have known this with out a aggressive motion at 4th

with your mid trips with a A in the door.


But if you aint willing to play them fast you are right to have dumped them.


You had a 38% chance of improving to a full house.as is the case you were a 55% fav.

over two opponents each holding two over pair. perhaps more given the size of your side

card (although at this point I doubt it would have made much difference). this is a close

call decision where implied odds should be factored. with out a doubt you would have

been paid handsomely if improved even if you would have spiked an A (a 17:1 longshot

for 5th)


I find a critical juncture such as this an excellent opportunity to get information of your

opponents which can be worth many more times the cost of a single wager. And this is

one of the factors that can tilt a close decision one way or another.


wombat6