one of the most well-disguised hands in the history

[Tommy Angelo]

$20-40 at the Mirage. Three players limped (L1, L2 and L3). I raised on the button with 98s. One blind folded. Five players to the flop.

The flop was A-9-9 with two hearts. They all checked and I bet. The blind folded, L1 folded, L2 called, and L3 called. Three players. Both opponents were sensible crafty poker players.

The turn was the king of hearts. They checked to me and I bet. L2 called and L3 folded. Headsup. The river was a black eight, giving me nines full of eights. The board was Ah-9h-9s, Kh, 8c.

He checked and I bet. He checkraised. I made it three bets. He called.

What's he got?

I had him totally pegged. He limped behind a limper with small to medium hearts, he flopped a flush draw, he hit the flush on the turn, but he wanted to wait and see that the river was a non fourth heart (or pair or trips on board) and then make his move relatively safely on the river. The moment I became certain was on the river when he checked. I knew he was ready to checkraise. If I had not hit the full house on the river, I would have checked behind him on the river.

But, as it turns out, I did improve. So I had a little surprise for him when he checkraised. Boom. Three bets I made it. He slumped a little when he called.

I turned over my full house.

And it was not good.


Tommy

[Yobz]

[ QUOTE ]
And it was not good.


[/ QUOTE ]

Your full house is not good and he did not re-raise you, or is that a typo?

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Tommy:

Good meeting with you at the Mirage. Since you and I already discussed this hand, I won't reveal the answers. However, as we also discussed, I think that it was misplayed by your opponent to the tune of one big bet (and perhaps slightly more, considering possible alternative early round decisions).

I felt this hand also highlighted another typicality of the modern poker craze, we'll see if anyone else spots it too.

al

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
What's he got?

[/ QUOTE ]

K9s?

[Steve Giufre]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And it was not good.


[/ QUOTE ]

Your full house is not good and he did not re-raise you, or is that a typo?

[/ QUOTE ]

The guy must have had K9 and feared Tommy had made kings or aces full.

[nepenthe]

I'm guessing opponent is one of those people who do not raise big hands (i.e. KK) preflop in hopes of minimizing exposure without seeing the community cards and perhaps of outplaying opponents postflop as they will not put him on KK in a million years. This same tendency led him to suspect Tommy had to have AA and opt for the calldown.

Just for the record, K9o/A9o is also a distinct possibility for this precise type of player.

[Evan]

Tommy's description of his opponents as sensible/crafty made me think KK was out of the question.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I can vouch for the fact...

THAT IS NOT A TYPO.

al

[pdavester]

The player must of had KK for the turned full house. I have seen an increasing rate of check-raises from fish occur one street after they make their hand lately.

This player called 3 bets instead of making it 4 not because he was scared of AA, but because he didnt know why you were raising and decided to call. Just about every week I see someone (fish) bet, then get raised and just call with the nuts (even with quads or better).

on a sidenote I was at the table with you and Ed friday night when you sat at the 10/20 for about 1 hour after getting cold decked at the 20/40 game. Wouldnt you know it, you were still cold decked in that game too.

[rory]

Tommy wasn't getting cold decked-- that is just how he plays.

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
I turned over my full house.

And it was not good.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's cuz L2 had pocket aces

[Trainwreck]

I have to go with AA on this one, due to what Al said and the title.

You didn't expect AA since it was so cleverly disguised by NOT reraising on the river, where he clearly lost a BIG bet, he expects you to have quads?

>TW<

[Tommy Angelo]

"Tommy wasn't getting cold decked-- that is just how he plays."

Wow. Right when I read the cold-deck comment, I thought, well, no, it's not really like a cold-decking when I bleed slowly backwards for a few hours. It's more like a scheduled lull.

Rory, you have helped my game with that one line you wrote a while back that I've been quoting you on, that Matt Flynn says should go on my tombstone.

"He pummeled them with checks and folds."

Call me silly but I love it!

Ever since you wrote that, I have been checking and folding even more, and my opponents are incurring injuries they won't even discover until they shower.


Tommy

[Tommy Angelo]

Opponent had KK.

[DeeJ]

He was worried about the Ace on the flop.
He thought he had the nuts on the turn and wanted overcalls and to keep players in.
He went for it at the river but got scared of AA after the 3-bet.

I agree it's not obvious, but it ain't so so far fetched.

[Tommy Angelo]

"He was worried about the Ace on the flop.
He thought he had the nuts on the turn and wanted overcalls and to keep players in.
He went for it at the river but got scared of AA after the 3-bet.

I agree it's not obvious, but it ain't so so far fetched."
-----------

I very much agree with you on all the postflop stuff. Not obvious, but not nearly far fetched enough on its own. Bu when you combine it with these two facts, it gets significantly farther fetched:

1) He limped behind a limper before the flop, and he did not make it three bets before the flop when served up the option.

2) He did not do the stuff in item one out of fear or inexperience.

[Yobz]

[ QUOTE ]
I felt this hand also highlighted another typicality of the modern poker craze, we'll see if anyone else spots it too.


[/ QUOTE ]
Slowplaying to the extreme? Or what? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[SoBeDude]

He must have learned how to play on Party.

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
he did not make it three bets before the flop when served up the option.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he had, would your play for the rest of the hand change?

The limp-reraise when you're second or third to limp is the latest craze in the low limit games on Party and it almost always means AXo or something like 65s. How would you handle this at a live mid limit game?

[Tommy Angelo]

"If he had [limp-reraised btf], would your play for the rest of the hand change?"

Definitely. I would have called down the whole way and never put in a raise, and if he checked a street, I'd check behind.

"The limp-reraise when you're second or third to limp is the latest craze in the low limit games on Party and it almost always means AXo or something like 65s. How would you handle this at a live mid limit game?"

I'm sure what you say is true, but when it comes to live games, first I'd have to see what you are talking about with my own eyes at least once. We don't get very many limp-reraises where I live that are done strategically or on purpose. Sometimes a super live one will limp in over and over and then limp-reraise time after time. But everyone knows he could have anything. What you're talking about, a limp-reraise for profit with Ax or 65, I've never seen. The worst hand I've seen limp-reraised by a non-maniac is 88. The other half a dozen times it was always aces.

Tommy

[DeeJ]

The limp-reraise is (conventional thinking would have me believe) used when you have a big hand and 'come out of the closet'. This to me is a big tell. It may be that villain had the same view? He wanted to keep his hand disguised preflop because of this. As Dude says, limp-reraise might shout big hand but can be used to simply scare people away with weaker hands /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Al_Capone_Junior]

[ QUOTE ]
Slowplaying to the extreme? Or what?

[/ QUOTE ]

Essentially, you got it right. People just don't know or understand how to play hands like KK, and they are playing by the advice in the book most newbies have read many times...

"Check and call your way to victory"

In addition, they DO slowplay EVERYTHING, hoping to suck others in so they can win a big one.

Essentially, the play these days is SO bad that badly misplayed hands like this one are the norm.

al