mirage hand

[Tommy Angelo]

Full $20-40 at the Mirage. I was in the one seat on chatter with Gabe in the two seat. The Babe was in the six seat. All the other people were clones.

I was on the button. UTG folded, UTG+1 open-limped, Babe limped, the next player raised, the next two players both cold-called, I called, Gabe folded, the big blind called, the limpers called. Seven players.

The flop was 3-2-2 (or 3-3-2) with one heart. My hand was J4 of hearts. It was checked to the Babe and she bet. I put her on a pocket pair lower than jacks. The next three players called one bet. I called.

Later away from the table I was talking about this flop decision with Gabe, Ed and mike. We all thought that folding would have been a definite mistake. Thoughts?

The turn was the 6 of hearts, giving me a gutshot and a flush draw. I called one bet from somewhere and so did a few other people.

The last card was the ace of hearts. UTG+1 bet out. The Babe folded. One player called in front of me, and I called. UTG+1 tabled 8-5 of hearts for a flush. I showed and won.

I thought the hand was a no-brainer from start to finish the way it went down but I thought I'd post it because all the really interesting hands I played involve me check-calling or check-folding when I should have lost more.

VIVA!


Tommy

[slavic]

All the other people were clones.

Of Babe or Gabe?

Certainly not 6 copies of you?

NiHand, I'm weak and would raise the river and curse the 3 bet.

[beerbandit]

i dont really understand the call before the flop. you do have position, but half the casino is still left to act after the raise has been put in and youll be able to lay the hand down easily if you miss. i know this is one call that i would not make, maybe im missing out. i can make the assumption by what i have read that you play well post flop, still.....

after the flop the hand looks good

cheers
beer

[andyfox]

I'm jealous. A game with you, Gabe and the Babe in it is delicious. Maybe not profitable, but who cares? Did Gabe bring his guitar?

FWIW, I fold pre-flop and on the flop. I raise on the river. Which probably wouldn't have been successful given that I wouldn't have had cards by then. But I got away with it once.

"All the other people were clones."

Priceless.

What did Gabe, Ed and Mike think about the pre-flop call and the river non-raise?

[Robb]

Side Note/Question:
Tommy,
You post a lot of hands where (at least to some) you make too tight plays in EP and too loose plays in LP.

How do you play hands in MP?

I would assume the answer is similar to how you play in EP...if so, how similar (in general)?

Regards

[slavic]

If he hits his hand he'll be paid off well by people who call way too much, just by the preflop action. Yes trash suited is just trash suited but he's getting a nice price here. Often you find spots were falling back to SS strategy works. Now are you giving up much by not playing it? Probably not, in fact you may be saving yourself quite a bit if you have trouble getting away from hands. If you play well postflop though, why not?

Now do I play well post flop? Heck if I know, I do seem to get lucky alot though. Tommy seems to play well, though that whole check check check post just seemed wrong.

Oh and Tommy wouldn't raising give you the opportunity to not have to show?

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
I was on the button. UTG folded, UTG+1 open-limped, Babe limped, the next player raised, the next two players both cold-called, I called, Gabe folded, the big blind called, the limpers called. Seven players....My hand was J4 of hearts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes I'm astonished (based on many of your old posts) by the hands you throw away for one more bet in the blinds. Now you call two bets cold on the button with jack four suited. I've read about your love of the button but what gives? /images/graemlins/confused.gif I wouldn't call for one bet (but I think it is close) /images/graemlins/grin.gif

BTW, agree that you have an easy call on the flop with big odds and two backdoor draws and an iffy out in the jack.

~ Rick

[SossMan]

I don't get the preflop call. The flop call looks thin, but okay given that the PFR just called.
I don't understand not raising the river.

[Tommy Angelo]

"You post a lot of hands where (at least to some) you make too tight plays in EP and too loose plays in LP. How do you play hands in MP?"

Too tight.

[andyfox]

It becomes correct to call on the flop often when one incorrectly cold-calls pre-flop, because the pot's big and it's hard not to have some kind of backdoor or overcard out.

The big issue is: what did Babe say when Tommy showed J-4?
/images/graemlins/smile.gif The more I think about it, maybe Tommy didn't raise just so he could show it. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Tyler Durden]

You've hit a new low.

Anyway, WTF? If someone other than Tommy posted this hand they'd be laughed out of the forum.

The sycophantic ass-kissing in this forum is enough to make me nauseated. I have to go find a trash can. You people should be ashamed of yourselves.

[Tommy Angelo]

"What did Gabe, Ed and Mike think about the pre-flop call and the river non-raise?"

We barely talked about those streets.

The reason I didn't raise the river was because the guy who bet the river did not look at all like a man who went all the way to spike an ace and then have the nerve to bet into a three-flush on board when the pot was already huge and dangerous. So I put him on a flush or maybe a full house with A-3. If he had a flush, I figured my hand at about 50-50 against his, and that's when meta game kicked in bigtime. Let's assume it was 50-50, that I was exactly as likely to have him beat as not, and that the third player would not call a third bet from me. (A good assumption,since he barely barely barely called the river in front of me.)

Now I think my river call is cleeeeearly right for all sorts of delightfully wonderful and profitable meta-game considerations.

If he has me beat, no one sees my hand, and it looks like I made a terrible call on the river, and probably the other streets too.

If I have him beat, then when I show my hand I look like a totally scared clueless wimp.

I thought the river was my best street on this hand, because the players here do notice things about new opponents, and they adjust instantly to their first impressions.

As to preflop, I am convinced that for me, draws are worth a lot more on the button than from the blinds, so I fold drawing hands from the blinds and play them from the button.

Tommy

[andyfox]

You're out of line, sir. Have you read the responses? Which people should be ashamed of themselves? The only people who should be ashamed are those who substitute name-calling for analysis.

[Tyler Durden]

I didn't call anyone a name /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Anyway, I think YOU are out of line.

[Robb]

I had a client last year who I was chummy with and I emailed her to let her know that our software couldn't meet her exact need presently. I wrote, "Let me know if this totally bums you out."
Before I opened her email I knew what it would say "This totally bums me out."
================================================== =
I got that same feeling before opening your response.

Have fun in Vegas.

[andyfox]

"draws are worth a lot more on the button than from the blinds"

They are for everybody. Every hand is worth more from the button. But there are some hands that are big -EV from the blinds that are still -EV from the button. I can't see how cold-calling raises with J-4 because one has the button can possibly be profitable.

"If . . . no one sees my hand . . . it looks like I made a terrible call on the river, and probably the other streets too."

I think it's more likely that if they see your hand they'll think you made a terrible call on a few streets.

[andyfox]

Nobody was called a sycophantic ass-kisser?

[Tyler Durden]

Is that really a name though? I accused people of doing it, I didn't call them it. If I accuse you of murder, does that mean I called you a murderer? Okay bad example.

I didn't call anyone a poopoo head.

[Steve Giufre]

Flop seems close, but it's hard to believe your giving much if anything at all by taking one off. I like your river play for a bunch of reasons most of which you already explained. Preflop stinks like a bad fart.

[andyfox]

OK, it's only a poker hand anyway. I think it's name-calling and I don't see the difference between accusing and calling, but no biggie.

Truce.

And it's Mr. Poopoo head to you.

[Robk]

you seem to be confusing obvious mistakes with big mistakes. given the situation calling preflop is costing very little. if anyone else had posted this hand (and included the river opponent description in the initial post) there would have been two or three "fold preflop nt" posts and it would have fallen off the board. which is maybe what it deserves. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, WTF? If someone other than Tommy posted this hand they'd be laughed out of the forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. The J4s pre-flop button cold-call would clearly catch immense amounts of crap, rightfully so.

[Tyler Durden]

[ QUOTE ]
Agreed. The J4s pre-flop button cold-call would clearly catch immense amounts of crap, rightfully so.

[/ QUOTE ]

Always good to have a superhero on my side.

[elindauer]

I get it now. You're testing the waters Tommy. This hand never happened. You and Babe got together, and made a bet. You said, Tommy has a lot of followers on these boards. I wonder what the most ridiculous hand action he could post is that would still get some people saying "nice hand". And you came up with this.

The Babe put her money that somebody would like it, every street. You were modest, and took no. Apparently, the Babe wins.


Fold preflop.
Call flop.
Call turn.
Raise river.


Good luck.
Eric

[beerbandit]

or maybe he see the pot pushed to the player with q7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif that calls to much. im unsure of the exact texture of the game, gabe and babe and clones...doesnt sound like j4 is very profitable hand.

i think the play would be more acceptable in an unraised pot. the mp raises and tommy calls there are still several palyers left to act and call the raise and gabe has still not acted. has there be any limp rasing by these palyers...babe. i guess the call makes it clear t.a. does not expect this.

cheers
beer

[SoBeDude]

[ QUOTE ]
It becomes correct to call on the flop often when one incorrectly cold-calls pre-flop, because the pot's big and it's hard not to have some kind of backdoor or overcard out.


[/ QUOTE ]

I still don't see how this flop call is correct. You're essentially drawing to a draw. You don't have a hand, period. a Jack is probably no good as you're missing a kicker. So you peel one hoping to pick up a draw, then you peel another hoping you hit your draw? I don't think you have pot odds to draw-to-a-draw, and I don't think its close.

How is this good poker?

-Scott

[Chris Daddy Cool]

tommy's getting 18-1 on his flop call. with a backdoor flush draw thats 1.5 outs. with a backoor straight, lets call that .75 outs and a J that might be good, let's call that 1 out. with a total of roughly 3.25 outs this is a pretty easy flop call.

of course preflop sucks, but we all know that.

[astroglide]

how abuot your Loc: 126th place in the 2004 WSOP or lame responses to fossilman like 'hi greg, i agree this should be folded. also, it was nice playing with you in the later stages of the 2004 world series of poker'. at least he's not trying to get his ass kissed. his last couple hands have been flamed to death and he probably knew they would be too.

[Ed Miller]

tommy's getting 18-1 on his flop call. with a backdoor flush draw thats 1.5 outs. with a backoor straight, lets call that .75 outs and a J that might be good, let's call that 1 out. with a total of roughly 3.25 outs this is a pretty easy flop call.

Dude, the flop call is a no-brainer. I don't have to count to know that sucking out on Pokerbabe with runner-runner crapola is worth $20.

[surfdoc]

Anyone up for placing a bounty on the first person who can post their PT data showing a profit for J4s for more than 5 hands total raised preflop or not from any position?

[tipperdog]

Always somewhat awkward for me, a small stakes player, to say to a respected mid-, high-stakes player "WTF were you thinking!?" But here goes: You called 2 bets cold pre-flop with J4s?! Isn't that a bit...insane!

That said, once you're in the hand and the pot has grown so large, you must call the flop if only for your two backdoor draws (not to mention your highly questionably overcard outs).

Also, there's no way I'd raise the river in that situation. You could easily be up against a higher flush, and only a few worse hands will call (although, I admit, 85h may have been one of those few). Then again, I'd never have seen the river with J4s, so it's not something I'd need to worry about /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Philuva]

I would fold pre-flop, call the flop and turn and raise the river.

On a side note: since it seems like so much of your game is on reads (a lot more than most players), do you call a lot on the river to see what the other person has to help you quantify your read %'s to see if they are as good as you think they are?

[Tyler Durden]

[ QUOTE ]
how abuot your Loc: 126th place in the 2004 WSOP or lame responses to fossilman like 'hi greg, i agree this should be folded. also, it was nice playing with you in the later stages of the 2004 world series of poker'. at least he's not trying to get his ass kissed. his last couple hands have been flamed to death and he probably knew they would be too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeez, I didn't think anyone would get their panties all in a bunch about this. Perhaps you need some Midol? My responses in this thread have been mostly a joke.

As for my location, it's a joke stemming from another thread. If you don't get it, I don't know what to tell ya there sport.

[Tyler Durden]

Hey Astro, now that I think of it, when I played in the World Series of Poker (and cashed in 126th place, by the way), I didn't play J4s at all. Isn't that weird! You can do just fine by folding crap like this. I did play some other suited cards in the big one tho. Right after I cashed, I limped in a multiway pot w/ the 87 of diamonds. I missed the flop completely! But you know, it wasn't a big deal, b/c when you play in the world series of poker (and i cashed also, btw) your stack can usually be pretty deep relative to the blinds. I'll let you know how I do next year (if I qualify). Maybe I'll even cash again!

[stoxtrader]

callin 2 with J4s, what kind of flop are you hoping to see? you certainly are not getting odds to play for two pair or better.

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey Astro, now that I think of it, when I played in the World Series of Poker (and cashed in 126th place, by the way), I didn't play J4s at all. Isn't that weird! You can do just fine by folding crap like this. I did play some other suited cards in the big one tho. Right after I cashed, I limped in a multiway pot w/ the 87 of diamonds. I missed the flop completely! But you know, it wasn't a big deal, b/c when you play in the world series of poker (and i cashed also, btw) your stack can usually be pretty deep relative to the blinds. I'll let you know how I do next year (if I qualify). Maybe I'll even cash again!

Are you joking me? STFU.

GoT

[Tyler Durden]

Nice avatar. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
Loc: Having my first period.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this part of that challenge you alluded to going public with (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1151384&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1)?

[Lawrence Ng]

Hi Tommy,

In any live game I tend not to judge people on a hand-to-hand basis, but you have a reputation to play "a lot" of hands in LP, especially on the button.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
do you call a lot on the river to see what the other person has to help you quantify your read %'s to see if they are as good as you think they are?

[/ QUOTE ]

Tommy has the insurmountable record for most river folds posted here.

[elysium]

hi tommy

isn't the cold-call a little loose? gee, positioned between the babe and gabe. that's a pretty tough spot spot. i'm not saying it was a bad call, it's just that it seems like a fold isn't a bad decision either.

yeah tommy, i've seen this play made on several occasions by the better players and i've always felt that the button is being moderately over-valued when this type play is made.

the flop;....tommy, i don't think that you can call. raising appears to be the only play if you are continuing on in the hand. this is raise or fold tommy, and it's fairly clear-cut at that.

you're too weak on the flop here tommy.

when the UTG+1 bets out, you might be slightly better raising him than calling. he likely is betting out with AJ or AT rather than the flush. he doesn't have AA or any other non-flush variation of the rivered A that helps him. Axs is possible, or even K or Q high, but i think you've got to raise, and fold if reraised. the MP caller should protect the pot sufficiently for a confident fold in the event of a reraise, and folding out a stronger hand is possible depending on your image. it would be rare to fold out a K or Q high, but slightly possible. i am not at all sure about the river raise, however.

raising the flop, though, is a must. you must never call in this spot. this is a rare glaring error on your part tommy. i caught you. fair's fair. the river call....i don't know. i'd tell you if i knew. i really don't know. i'm guessing when i say raising might be correct. if i were playing it, i would very likely only call as well. i do question it though. calling the river might be wrong.

[SoBeDude]

Wow.

OK, so to prove you wrong on the flop call, I sat down and did the math. OK, I'll admit it. You can make this call

With a 6.6% chance to make the flush by the river, and a 3.08% chance of making the straight by the river, you have a 9.68% chance of making a significant hand.

And since neither draw is to the nuts, and that that board is paired so we make make our hand and lose to a bigger straight (unlikely), flush (possible) or full house (also possible), lets say IF we make our hand that it will hold up 80% of the time?

So we end up with a hand that will win over 7.7% of the time. Thats a 13-1 shot, and we're getting plenty of pot odds to call. But...remember these are not immediate odds, as we are having to put more money in on the turn in order to complete our draw, so we really need to include the cost of calling the turn, plus trying to calculate the potential cost of getting raised and how that effects pot odds.

I guess I learned something today.

-Scott

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice avatar. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is the first time I've ever agreed with you.

[JTG51]

And since neither draw is to the nuts, and that that board is paired so we make make our hand and lose to a bigger straight (unlikely), flush (possible) or full house (also possible), lets say IF we make our hand that it will hold up 80% of the time?

I think a straight or flush will win more than 80% of the time here, but that's not very important. What is important is that you're ignoring any chance of a Jack being good. Tommy will win a significant portion of the time that he hits a Jack.

[Duke]

Hold up - you're in VEGAS? Hopefully I get a chance to run into you and play some with you before you go.

Time to find a picture of you so I can spot you if you're around.

~D

[astroglide]

I didn't think anyone would get their panties all in a bunch about this

you didn't? that's odd, because people have pointed it out (as well as your public glad-handing of anybody else in the wsop) in other threads as well. it is pathetic.

[astroglide]

are you counting the times that you have a straight, but also count a flush? i've seen a lot of calculations go off because of stuff like that.

[Tyler Durden]

if you say so. sorry i upset you!

[astroglide]

if i say so?

I wasn't just at the wsop. I cashed. 126th place. Thanks.

Great post Greg. And it was a pleasure to play with you in the wsop.

I made it on TV.... During the wsop telecast this past week. It was the second episode last Tuesday night. I was out of town so I didn't see it till today, on Tivo. I'm just in the background on three shots. One of them is me peering over Mike Matusow's shoulder late in the show. It's a pretty close up shot me also. I'm wearing my red Speaker City hat and beige shorts. If anyone cares...

Though I must add, I semi-bluffed him out of a pretty big pot w/ a flush draw late in the day and got him to fold top pair (Jacks-no kicker). You can read about the hand in my wsop report (even small-timers like me need to plug here and there).

What if they don't register their request with the dealer? During the wsop a guy seated next to me asked me to show him my hand, however he said it pretty quietly and I think I was the only one to hear him, so I said no and threw my hand in. At the time I didn't realize that I was breaking the rules.

[SoBeDude]

[ QUOTE ]
are you counting the times that you have a straight, but also count a flush? i've seen a lot of calculations go off because of stuff like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ug. you're right. but I'm unsure how to make the changes to the calculations to correct it.

How big an impact does it make?

-Scott

[Tyler Durden]

Proving this point must have meant a lot to ya eh? You even went into the archives. Wow. Okay you win.

[SA125]

Tyler - "Anyway, WTF? If someone other than Tommy posted this hand they'd be laughed out of the forum."

A canvas is full of paint that was spilled on it or thrown at it.

"He did what? He threw paint at the canvas? Look at this mess. He should've cleaned that sh*t up. You call that art?" .....

"Jackson Pollack you say? Why, of course. This is an important work. Look at the line of black dots leading into the spray of yellow. Glorious. I'll bid $4mil."

I can't see the PF call. I can't play post flop like Tommy, even into a table full of clones. Classic line BTW. Tyler, making a good point is one thing. Saying over and over "cashed in at the WSOP..." is another. It's as lame, maybe lamer, than the PF call.

[Tyler Durden]

Okay.

[SoBeDude]

Tyler, making a good point is one thing. Saying over and over "cashed in at the WSOP..." is another. It's as lame, maybe lamer, than the PF call.

Maybe this is the point where I should start mentioning that I busted out of the WSOP on the first hand I played?

-Scott

[mikelow]

Since you were allowed to come in cheap, it was ok to play despite your thin drawing possibilities.

Nice read on the Babe. But I would have folded preflop.

[Tyler Durden]

Anything to take the heat off me buddy.

[SoBeDude]

[ QUOTE ]
Anything to take the heat off me buddy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Welcome to my world

[1800GAMBLER]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I learned something today.

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost there once you forget this part:

[ QUOTE ]
You don't have a hand, period. a Jack is probably no good as you're missing a kicker

[/ QUOTE ]

A jack is worth at least 1.5 outs here.

[SA125]

SoBe - "Maybe this is the point where I should start mentioning that I busted out of the WSOP on the first hand I played?"


Dude, hijack the thread and let's hear it.

[SoBeDude]

[ QUOTE ]
A jack is worth at least 1.5 outs here.

[/ QUOTE ]

since there are 3 jacks left in the deck, you think your jack will be good 50% of the time? seems high to me.

-Scott

[PokerBabe(aka)]

Notice that my name is not mentioned here in the post-hand discussion with mikel, Eddie Miller and Gabe? Why do you think that is? /images/graemlins/grin.gif Ok, well, here's my take on it.

I don't like the preflop call for a raise with J,4 suited. I fail to see the merit in playing a hand when you can't figure out which card is the kicker.


ON the flop, it's checked to me and I bet.
Let's see now....there are 5 people behind me and I bet out on a 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif flop after the pot has been raised (preflop) by a guy directly to my left. This means that I am about 100% sure I have the best hand. I mean, it's not even close that I would be on a draw here.

Tommy says that he thought I had a pocket pair less than Jacks. Really? Ok, so, I could have pocket 2s, 3s, 4s, 5s, 6s, 7s, 8s, 9s, or 10s. If I have pocket 2s , he's drawing dead. If I have pocket 3's, he's drawing nearly dead. If I have pocket 4s, he's also dead to a 4. If I have any other pair and hit one of my outs, he's once again drawing dead. If I have ANY pocket pair below Jacks and Tommy does not hit a Jack, he is once again, dead meat. So, what does Tommy really think I have on the flop? ALso, how many outs does Tommy really think he has? I think he was thinking he had 3 outs. /images/graemlins/confused.gif Nevermind that his kicker may not be good should he hit one of those Jacks, (since there are 5 guys besides the Babe still in the mix here). Unless Tommy was expecting to go perfect/perfect on this one, he should fold his hand on the flop and start chatting with Gabe again.

On the turn, Tommy cannot fold because now he has more outs that he thought he would when he totally missed the flop and decided to call anyway. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

On the river, Tommy makes a hand but still cannot raise having done so. So, all this calling pays off but, YET..., Tommy may still be behind. Fortunately for our hero, the calling station on my right had even worse hand selection than the calling station on my left, and thus, Tommy scoops a nice pot.

/images/graemlins/heart.gif

[Rick Nebiolo]

Even though I've seen El Diablo's avatar a few thousand times I have no idea which superhero he is. Can somebody clue me in?

~ Rick

[SoBeDude]

I fail to see the merit in playing a hand when you can't figure out which card is the kicker.

Oh I just LOVE this line!

-Scott

[roy_miami]

You people really have no clue do you? Its so bloody obvious why tommy made the call preflop its not funny.


Obviously Tommy believes he has psycic powers at the card table and he was testing his powers during this hand. It happens to me all the time, I get dealt hands like 97s and I KNOW its gonna be a winner but alas, a raise in front of me and I muck,unlike tommy, I haven't had the gonades to follow through on my extrasensory powers. You give us all hope Tommy! I can't wait for the day when I can trust my psycic powers enough to call 2 cold with J4s or be able to muck QQ UTG cause I just know.
/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[andyfox]

"isn't the cold-call a little loose?"

-No, it's ridiculously loose.

"Gee, positioned between the babe and gabe. that's a pretty tough spot."

-It's a wonderful spot. I'm jealous and envious.

"i'm not saying it was a bad call"

-OK, I'll say it: it was a bad call. Button, schmutton, he had nuttin'.

"the flop;....tommy, i don't think that you can call. raising appears to be the only play if you are continuing on in the hand. this is raise or fold tommy, and it's fairly clear-cut at that."

-I'd have put no bets into that flop; I can understand the argument for putting one in; I can't fathom putting in two (or more).

[astroglide]

blathering all over the forums about it meant more to you than pointing it out did to me. i only took 2-3 minutes to search for anything with 'wsop' in it by tyler durden (which probably doesn't encompass all of your talk about it), open the 15 or so threads on the first page in a separate tab with a middle click, and glance at each to decide how flagrant it was before quoting. you can try to color what i did for those few minutes as being pathetic all you want. you spent much more time crafting the posts than i did outing you.

[Tyler Durden]

you take yourself and this site so seriously. i had no idea. just calm down man. i'm amazed at how heated you seem to be about this. i was able to keep an even keel during the wsop. that's part of the reason i cashed /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Clarkmeister]

You are such a tool.

[Tyler Durden]

I've never been so insulted. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[astroglide]

you: whine about people being ass-kissers
me: point out that you ASK to have your ass kissed

you: "perhaps you need some midol" and "the location is a joke"
me: other people have pointed it out too

you: "if you say so"
me: show multiple quotes, several of which there was no way you were joking, where you were doing exactly what i said you were doing.

you: "wow you went to the archives!"
me: point out that it took 2 minutes of my time to do that

you: "you take this site too seriously"

get it? man up and admit that it was lame in a straight up way and it was over. you denied it, then claimed i took too long getting the proof, then claimed i took the site too seriously because i got the proof. this isn't my problem, it is yours. you're being even more pathetic by trying to deflect and grease your way out of it because i'm somehow a bad guy for providing proof in response to your denials that you do some seriously lame [censored]. your responses have illustrated that seriously lame [censored] may be your rule, and not your exception. accuse me of whatever you want, i'll deal with it, but that's a totally separate issue. when it comes to the wsop stuff, you are lame.

[Tyler Durden]

still on this eh? weak. good to see i got you all riled up tho.

i didn't read your response, sorry. it was like, way too long.

[astroglide]

you are pathetic

[joker122]

Your new avatar is hilarious.

[Tyler Durden]

sounds like you're just mad i didn't read your whole post. cheer up pal.

[Tyler Durden]

okay i'll admit, i finally went and read your post. here's what i came up with.

[ QUOTE ]
this isn't my problem, it is yours.

[/ QUOTE ]

you sure about that? it doesn't seem to be a problem for me...

[Ulysses]

This (Tyler/astro) has to be in the running for dumbest argument on 2+2 ever.

[astroglide]

i agree, but there is no legal argument

[SoBeDude]

This subthread has 0 value.

[Tyler Durden]

I concur.

[andyfox]

Related with his permission:

He wouldn't have played the hand pre-flop, but if one is going to play it from the button, 3-betting might be a better way to go, as the players will most likely check to you on the flop. He thinks the call on the flop is probably correct and he would have raised the river.

[Senor Choppy]

[ QUOTE ]
how abuot your Loc: 126th place in the 2004 WSOP

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the only thing I see on 2+2 that consistently makes me LOL.

[SinCityGuy]

Slightly off-topic, but related--

Tommy, what do you think of the post-mortem hand analyses by the Mirage players? At a typical 10/20 or 20/40 table, you'll get about three or four table coaches kibitzing over virtually every hand. I've never seen anything like it.

[Tommy Angelo]

"Tommy, what do you think of the post-mortem hand analyses by the Mirage players?"

I find it to be informative.

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
I find it to be informative.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too. I just keep my mouth shut and occasionally nod in approval. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[andyfox]

It is unbelievable, isn't it? The only problem I have is that there's often one guy doing it during the hand. Once I had check-rasing a set when an ace hit on the turn. The bettor turned over his A-Q and said, "I can't beat a set of threes." (I had a set of nines.) There were two other players still to act behind him. Then at the end of the hand the professor continued the lecture, berating the other two.

But Tommy (as usual) is right. It is indeed informative.

[theBruiser500]

tyler durden, astroglide has definitly won this argument with you. your smiley faces are a cheap way of trying to backpedal here.

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
This (Tyler/astro) has to be in the running for dumbest argument on 2+2 ever.

[/ QUOTE ]


surely i must be involved in some of the other front-runners

[Mason Malmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought the hand was a no-brainer

[/ QUOTE ]

I agtree. Sounds to me like you got "IT."

Best wishes,
Mason

[andyfox]

You're starting to be the funniest poster here. I say this as a compliment and with more than a touch of jealousy.