Fun Game for Us to Play

[NUReedy]

I want to make this interesting. This is a hand I saw (may or may not have been a part of it, I will reveal later) at a PP $5 SNG. Everyone is your standards Party SNG moron, so raises don't really mean much of anything. I am hiding the hero's hand, so I would like everyone to guess what hero, BB, and CO have, or should have to make such moves.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="C00000">Hero (t1470)</font>
<font color="C00000">BB (t2105)</font>
UTG (t1290)
MP (t595)
<font color="C00000">CO (t1480)</font>
Button (t1060)

Preflop: Hero is SB with ???, ???.
<font color="666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls t50, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, <font color="CC3333">BB raises to t100</font>, CO calls t50, Hero calls t50.

Flop: (t300) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets t50</font>, CO calls t50, Hero calls t50.

Turn: (t450) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets t50</font>, <font color="CC3333">CO raises to t100</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t1320 (All-In)</font>, <font color="CC3333">BB raises to t1955 (All-In)</font>, CO calls t1230 (All-In).

River: (t5055) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players, 3 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t5055
<font color="green">Main Pot: t4410 (t4410), between Hero, BB and CO.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: t20 (t20), between BB and CO.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 3: t625 (t625), returned to BB.</font>

[codewarrior]

Please don't refer to your opponents as morons...

(ReeRee's is OK though /images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

[Marcotte]

How is the BB betting 50 on the Turn if the BB is t50? Shouldn't the min bet bet 100?

That aside, here are my guesses.

Hero has A4 or A5 with the Ac.
BB has 99 or 88, possible a pp &gt;10
CO has Tx (x &lt; 7) and took it down.

[NUReedy]

It is no limit. There is not a "big bet," per se, but a minimum bet. Interesting guesses though. Why would the Hero in this instance push on a single club flush draw, when it appears that the CO has a T (flat call flop bet, then min raise to keep the Hero in) and won't fold. If the Hero had the A /images/graemlins/club.gif, you would think he/she would want to see the river cheaply if he hits his hand.

[kleraudio]

ok here goes, im prolly way off but heres what i think they (should) have:

CO Ax clubs (made hand on turn)
BB Pocket 3's or 2's
Hero AT or KT

Jim /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[Marcotte]

[ QUOTE ]
It is no limit. There is not a "big bet," per se, but a minimum bet. Interesting guesses though. Why would the Hero in this instance push on a single club flush draw, when it appears that the CO has a T (flat call flop bet, then min raise to keep the Hero in) and won't fold. If the Hero had the A /images/graemlins/club.gif, you would think he/she would want to see the river cheaply if he hits his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

By BB I mean “big blind”, not “big bet”. I guess it was confusing to use the same acronym for the forced bet and for the player making the forced bet. (Hmm… I don’t think I made it much clearer with that last sentence lol.) Anyway, the min bet on the turn (and river) has been twice the big blind in every no-limit game I've played. Isn't that standard?

As for the guesses, you called your opponents “morons”, and left some doubt as to whether hero was you (or a friend) or an opponent, so I put him in the same category (actually slightly higher). I assumed hero wasn’t thinking much about what COs flat call and min raise might mean. I saw his all-in raise as a semi-bluff with outs to the nut flush and a (weak) straight. BB (the person) I just assumed was a fish who thinks all pocket pairs are golden and figures no-one could have a ten if he can see two of them. I could conceivably also put him on any two overcards to the flop. CO was the hard one. If he has a ten, why not protect against the flush? …… hmmm…. Having a change of opinion now.

Maybe hero has KcTs and is hoping the As isn’t out. BB has it though, with another ace (was trying to trap) or a K-J (playing weakly). CO has a made low flush, maybe with the 4c5c for a straight flush draw?

How many guesses do I get? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Roman]

min bet is always 1x the BB in NL.... you obviously dont play much /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[wjmooner]

[ QUOTE ]
CO Ax clubs (made hand on turn)
BB Pocket 3's or 2's
Hero AT or KT

[/ QUOTE ]

These are my guesses, although I would put the CO on the naked Ten and the Hero on the flush.

[Marcotte]

[ QUOTE ]
min bet is always 1x the BB in NL.... you obviously dont play much /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, I don't. I only have 80 SNGs logged at PokerRoom, but there the min bet on the turn and river is 2x BB. I'll have to check out some other sites.

(Of course, I usually either win the pot on or before the flop or fold, so I could be mistaken lol)

[NUReedy]

Ok, interesting thoughts. I was more looking for analysis here, but since no one knows the hands it makes it hard. Let's move this to the next level of discussion.

Here are the hands, not assigned to people:
A /images/graemlins/club.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif
K /images/graemlins/spade.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif
2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Here are the next to things we should discuss:
1) Who has what
1a) Given what they have, who played poorly, and if so, how should they have gone about the hand?

[EnderW27]

If CO had the AQ he definitely should have raised pf. If it was the BB, that whimpy 100t bet isn't going to get anyone out. Either way, the person with AQ played it terribly pre flop.

The 22...I dunno. Granted, he's paying almost nothing to take a card off here, but can he expect to get paid off if it hits? Still, for 50 it's not terrible.

The KT should bet (or bet more) on the flop. It will never get the flush draw out I'm sure, but that's besides the point.


Here are my guesses: AQ in BB, 22 in the SB and KT in CO.

[wjmooner]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero checks, BB bets t50, CO raises to t100, Hero raises to t1320 (All-In), BB raises to t1955 (All-In), CO calls t1230 (All-In).

[/ QUOTE ]

The Turn is the key to this whole horrible mess, at least it would be in my mind.

First, let me say that NOBODY played this right on the flop and that AQ sure should have been raising preflop.

Anyway, here for what it's worth is what I see happening. I think the BB decides to play for set value with 22, flop is a paired board so he thinks, since action was non-existent, he has the best hand. But he's scared since he only has 22, so he bets out weak. He gets called by a flush draw and a slooooooooooooow player.

Turn is the magic two. BB leads out weak again, only this time he's trapping. Now the CO decides to build the pot for his trips and min raises to try to keep them both in some more. Hero thinks, dang, he likes his hand and I got the flush. Look at that board, that's not a scary board, I'll push and hope he calls.

Now the BB has trapped them all with his house and he reraises all in. CO makes a crying dying call (which he should have laid down) and that's the end of that.

That's how I read the hand, but it could go any other way and I wouldn't be surprised.

Chris

[viennagreen]

roman,

i do play a lot. you must not play at very many different places.

though i play primarily at Party and Stars, i have tested the SNG waters at PokerRoom and Pacific--- both of these places have a minimum bet of 2x the big blind on the turn and river.

[J.A.Sucker]

Who cares what the hands are? I think all of you played it horribly.

[NUReedy]

Thank you for the great advice jackarse. I'll be sure to utilize it next time. What, praytell, should be done?

[NUReedy]

No one has anything interesting to say about this. Thanks peoples.