Two hands to talk about.

[Bob T.]

Alright, I had two hands where I made marginal plays, and I wanted to talk about them, and I thought that I would try this two hands/ One thread thing, and see how it worked out.

[Bob T.]

Online 10- 20 game.

EP limps, MP raises, Button coldcalls, SB semicoldcalls, I have red 5s in the BB, I call. EP calls. 5 players, 10 Sbs.

Flop T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif.

I check, EP checks, MP bets, Button folds, SB folds, I raise, EP folds, MP calls.

Turn, 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. I bet, MP calls.

River K /images/graemlins/club.gif I bet, MP calls.

Obviously, I won this hand, but if I don't catch the 5 on the turn, who likes my checkraise on the flop here?

[sfer]

I like it. It's a great flop for 55 and the Button and SB have basically opened the door for you. I assume that (1) you fold to a turn raise (2) you slow down real fast if EP calls 2. Also, it would be a much more interesting hand if the turn paired the 4 and a King fell on the river. Then what's your action?

[Rico Suave]

Bob T:

I like the check raise (I am assuming the button folded on the flop?). I would be less inclined had the button or the sb or both called the flop bet.

--Rico

[Bob T.]

Online 10-20 game. There were two players in this game, that would have made an online 1-2 game, a good game, and a bunch of very tight players, all with VPIP well under 20%. The first loose player busted out a couple of laps ago, and the second one, who was immediately to my right busted out in the BB on the last lap. I was about to quit anyway, but when he busted out, I got to play an additional lap, for the price of the SB, so I stayed.

Folded to me in the CO, and I have J4 of hearts. I open-raise, expecting to have a good chance of winning the blinds. My plan works perfectly /images/graemlins/confused.gif, as the button, and both blinds call.

Flop 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/club.gif4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Checked to me, and I think that this is a flop that can only be good for me, as tight players aren't going to have a piece of it, except for maybe the BB. I bet, button calls slowly, SB folds, and the BB calls.

Turn, 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Check, I bet, Button folds slowly, and the BB calls.

River, K /images/graemlins/club.gif, Check, and I.....?

[Bob T.]

I am assuming the button folded on the flop?).

Yes, I will edit it too make that clearer.

[Bob T.]

Also, it would be a much more interesting hand if the turn paired the 4 and a King fell on the river. Then what's your action?


Yes it would have been, my plan was to keep betting, until I got raised, and then think about what I had to do.

[TheHip41]

Let me state that I don't play 10-20 online /images/graemlins/smile.gif, but I think you need to bet here. If you are raised, easy fold. Also, would the BB call you down with A5 here? or 77 if you river bet? He might think that the K hurt him, or that you have it. Just my thoughts on it

[spamuell]

River, K , Check, and I.....?

I don't see how you have a value bet here if the BB is tight. He probably either has a draw or a better hand (is he tight passive?) and he won't call with the draw, except maybe 33 and he probably still won't. What do you expect him to call with here that you beat? Over 50% of the time (assuming you fold to a c/r)?

Edited to add: I also think you have too much showdown potential to bet here as a bluff.

[chesspain]

Hhhm...does a reasonably tight BB call this river with A-high or fold a pocket pair more than 20% of the time? I wouldn't think so, so I probably would check behind.

[Bob T.]

I don't see how you have a value bet here if the BB is tight. He probably either has a draw or a better hand (is he tight passive?) and he won't call with the draw, except maybe 33 and he probably still won't.

Edited to add: I also think you have too much showdown potential to bet here as a bluff.

That is exactly what I thought at the end.

[crockett]

[ QUOTE ]
Edited to add: I also think you have too much showdown potential to bet here as a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you please explain what you mean by this?

[spamuell]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Edited to add: I also think you have too much showdown potential to bet here as a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]Could you please explain what you mean by this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically that if you have the nut low you should probably bet here because you win all the times he folds his missed draws where you would have lost had you checked behind, but given that you beat his missed draws anyway then betting as a bluff is not particularly advantageous.

[crockett]

Thank you for the reply.

Kind of a fancy way of confirming the "any worse hand will fold but a better one will call" saying.

And the important thing...I just picked up a new concept. I can think of many times where I squarely put my opponent on a busted river draw but checked behind anyways only to find out that his crap beat my crap but if I would just bet in these situations, the times that I would pick up a pot would definately make up for the cases where my read was incorrect! This would be especially true as I move up in levels where calling stations are less frequent.

[Trix]

I like it and may have gone for the CR on the river.

[Trix]

checks, he is calling if he beats you and he isnt calling 55% with hands that doesnt.
Dont know about the preflop, wasnt there..

[Victor]

A river checkraise would be sweet.

[Victor]

check it down.

there are very few hands that he will call you with on this river that you beat unless this player (or players in general) call down with A high in this situation.

[Bob T.]

Dont know about the preflop, wasnt there..

LOL. I don't know about preflop but I was there. I've foumd that as I moved from 3-6, to 5-10 to 10-20. Any income that you might get from stealing the blinds is important. One way to look at it, is that all my profit probably comes from blind steals, and I probably break even on the hands where we see a flop. I just don't want all my steals to be with AA, and AKs.

[Bob T.]

...unless this player (or players in general) call down with A high in this situation.

I thought that we were the only ones that did that /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

[Bob T.]

Hmmmmm. I like the thought. It would have worked on this hand. I guess this is why we post hands, there is always something to learn.

[Bob T.]

My opponent had JJ!? and MHWG. I think that he probably misplayed his hand, and I should have won more money after I caught the turn 5, because I was representing some kind of ten, against his overcards, and he could beat the hand that I thought I was representing, as well as the hand that I had at the time of the checkraise.

I think that if I checked the river, I would have got another bet, but I was hoping at the time that he actually had AK, and would raise if he made his pair on the river, so I could three bet.

Thanks for the responses,
Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[Bob T.]

I thought pretty much the same as everyone else did, and checked the river behind my opponent thinking that he was likely on a draw, that couldn't call or a hand that would beat me that would call. He had 83s, for the bottom end OESD, and MHWG.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[Bob T.]

The two hands in one thread seemed to work okay, didn't it?

[spamuell]

The two hands in one thread seemed to work okay, didn't it?


Yeah it worked but I don't see why it was so much better than two individual threads.

[Bob T.]

Yeah it worked but I don't see why it was so much better than two individual threads.

Because it takes up less space on the front page. If someone has five related hands to talk about, this way all of them stick around, and they don't push everything off of the front page, so other topics can stay there also. I've set my front page to 25 topics, and still stuff drops off from the time I go to work, to the time I get back.