One of these days......

[Clarkmeister]

.....Andy Fox will see enough Yankee playoff comebacks that he will start to believe in "heart".

[andyfox]

I don't know about heart, but I do know that:

-the ball that bounced over the wall in the 8th inning saved Rivera's ass.

-Nathan simply ran out of gas.

-Matsui is a big-game player. He's obviously not your typical second year player.

-Jeter does an awful lot of things well that lead to wins.

-The Yankees may be paying the price for Rivera, Gordon and Quantrill pitching in so many games this year.

Helluvan exciting finish though. Sorry Twins fans.

[Clarkmeister]

That's why I said "one of these days" and not "today". /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[andyfox]

I don't know about heart, but I do know, in crunch time, they had Jeter, A-Rod, Sheffield, and Matsui up at bat. I'll take that over heart any time.

All of a sudden, the Angels have bases loaded, nobody out. Uh-oh. Erstad's lucky he still has a kneecap.

[Clarkmeister]

They also get key hits from guys with names like Boone and Posada. It's the whole team. It's a winning culture. It's why the Yankees win and the BoSox and Cubs constantly lose. It's heart.

[ThaSaltCracka]

Clark, you need to lump your Cards in there with the Yankees.

[andyfox]

Well, Boone also made the key out in the last World Series when he struck out with the bases loaded in game 4. And Posada hit the ball all of 12 feet to make the final out of game 6.

Maybe I don't understand what you mean by heart. There are some guys who thrive under pressure and some guys who tense up. But a lot of that has to do with how they've been swinging the bat lately. Jeter's made a lot of big plays in his carrer, but in game 6 of last year's World Series he went hitless and made a key error giving Florida their second run.

Heart didn't make Nathan walk two guys on 8 pitches tonight. You've got to work pretty hard to walk Jeter.

[Clarkmeister]

Maybe it's easier to understand if you are not a Yankee fan. But I promise you that every playoff game the Yankees are losing, all Yankee haters have that sinking feeling in the pit of their stomach that tells them that it's just a matter of time before the Yanks get that tying or winning run. Leads are never safe, games are never "over" until they are actually over. There's a fear there. An unwillingness to ever enjoy a game because you know that they are just waiting to rip it away from you. And when it (seemingly) inevitably happens, you get mad at yourself for even allowing hope to sink into your brain. That's what it feels like to recognize and root against a team with heart.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's easier to understand if you are not a Yankee fan. But I promise you that every playoff game the Yankees are losing, all Yankee haters have that sinking feeling in the pit of their stomach that tells them that it's just a matter of time before the Yanks get that tying or winning run. Leads are never safe, games are never "over" until they are actually over. There's a fear there. An unwillingness to ever enjoy a game because you know that they are just waiting to rip it away from you. And when it (seemingly) inevitably happens, you get mad at yourself for even allowing hope to sink into your brain. That's what it feels like to recognize and root against a team with heart.

[/ QUOTE ]

POTD (in this part of the forum at least)

When Nathan walked Cairo to bring up Jeter, I knew it was over. Didn't even need to watch, you KNEW the Yankees were going to at least tie it. There isn't a team in any other sport where I get that feeling - of inevitability.

[andyfox]

I'm not so sure that's what I call heart though. It was the Twins who came back tonight in the 8th inning against Rivera. It was only a bounce over the wall that kept them from (most likely) winning the game.

I think sometimes people call "heart" what is actually intensity. Paul O'Neill is perhaps the best example. When I was a kid people used to say Mickey Mantle had heart playin in pain. And he did play in pain, but sometimes that pain was exacerbated by the pain of a hangover too. I'm not a big believer in the so-called intangibles, chemistry and heart and the like. Bill James and others who have studied clutch hitting have concluded there ain't no such thing.

I think the fear that you describe is fear of their talent: a successful manager, a team that has been in the playoffs ten consecutive years, a team that has been to the World Series six times in the last eight years and won four of them. (And lets not forget they lost one in the bottom of the 9th of game 7, although admittedly after two unbelievable 2 outs in the bottom of the ninth home runs in games 4 and 5.) The Yankees came from behind succesfully so often this year because they had poor starting pitching, hit 242 home runs, and had Rivera save 53 out of 56 opportunities. Not because they had heart. IMO.

On another note, just watching the Angels: Figgins is a disaster at second base.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
On another note, just watching the Angels: Figgins is a disaster at second base.

[/ QUOTE ] I thought I was the only one who noticed. Booted the ball earlier in the 7th, then, terrible transfer from eckstein and blew the DP.

[Ed Miller]

Figgins is a disaster at second base.

But he has the coolest name this side of Coco Crisp.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
But he has the coolest name this side of Coco Crisp.

[/ QUOTE ] I disagree, his first name is very close to Chode.

[Ed Miller]

But I promise you that every playoff game the Yankees are losing, all Yankee haters have that sinking feeling in the pit of their stomach that tells them that it's just a matter of time before the Yanks get that tying or winning run.

Yankees SUCK.

[andyfox]

I wonder if I can still return my copy of your book.

[daryn]

funny, i suddenly want to buy a 2nd copy.

[Ed Miller]

funny, i suddenly want to buy a 2nd copy.

Perfect. Andy, you can just ship your copy to daryn. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

You can write "Jeter SUCKS" on it too if you'd like.

[andyfox]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

First LOL of my night.

Regards,
Andy

[daryn]

it's supposed to be JETER SWALLOWS

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree, his first name is very close to Chode.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well said, my friend.

[ArchAngel71857]

it's supposed to be JETER SWALLOWS

Really? i always heard contrary to the actual positions they hold on the field, Posada is the pitcher and Jeter is the catcher.

-AA

P.S. That GRD was cheap. The Yankees redesigned their outfield walls in the offseason because Steinbrenner spent 76 million dollars to run infinite simulations on game 2 scenarios. He then decided to lower the wall so any balls hit with runners at the corners would score one run instead of dying against the wall, scoring 2. Next offseason he will spend 59 million to reschedule the baseball offseason so that games 1-5 of the ALDS coincide with the Zoroastrian festival of Ayathrem. He will then spend 45 million to send missionaries to Johan Santana to get him to convert to Zoroastrianism.

[Porcupine]

Well said Clark.

As a longtime Yankee fan, I've learned to trust them to win (trusting them to win is much different than the not giving up hope on my other teams when they are behind) no matter how bad things look. October baseball is very strange for me, as all my other favorite teams are underdogs and I'm around a lot of Red Sox and Cubs fans.

[Uston]

Clark, you need to lump your Cards in there with the Yankees.

I'm a grown man and I can barely remember the Cardinals in a World Series. I do remember them having a 3-1 lead over the Braves before getting outscored 32-1 over the final three games of the series, though.

[ThaSaltCracka]

9 WS titles and 15 appearances

[Uston]

It's why the Yankees win and the BoSox and Cubs constantly lose.

Having a payroll of $200M doesn't hurt.

After the Red Sox beat your heart-filled Angels they will have one more ALCS appearance than losing season since I've been watching baseball. They have never had the best team in baseball in that time (2003 is the only year where this is even debatable), so I don't find it all that shocking that they haven't won a World Series.

[ThaSaltCracka]

there is more than one team with a payroll over 100 million and the bosox are one of them, so don't cry about them not having enough money to spend.

[ QUOTE ]
They have never had the best team in baseball in that time (2003 is the only year where this is even debatable), so I don't find it all that shocking that they haven't won a World Series.

[/ QUOTE ] IMO, the last two WS champs weren't even the best teams in baseball for that year. Some teams get hot in time for the playoffs while others petter out once they get there. The Sox probably would have won last year IF they had made it, but somehow the Yankees dug deep to win that series, to bad they ran into a red hot Florida team in the WS.

[Clarkmeister]

Typical loser Red Sox fan, claiming it's not their fault that they never win, and hey, we're quite happy with their recent performance of getting to the playoffs with regularity.

Losers. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

The next time a Yankee fan tells me they are happy to be in the post season with regularity or happy to have just made it to the World Series will be the first.

[andyfox]

Florida did have the best record in baseball last year from the time McKeon took over. And I'm pretty that in 2002 the Angels had the best record from about June forward.

Still, over the last ten years, the team with the best overall record has won the World Series only once (1998).

[jagoff]

Well said TSC! That is indeed why the playoffs are so good! Take the M's of a few years back when they set the league afire with 119 wins (or whatever they had, they didn't make it to the Series. I can't even remember if they got out of the ALDS. Anyway, if you run into one of those teams (like this years 'Stros) that is on fire at the end of the season then all that grinding throughout the season was for not.

[andyfox]

Based on run scored minus runs allowed, the Red Sox have the best team in baseball this year.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Florida did have the best record in baseball last year from the time McKeon took over. And I'm pretty that in 2002 the Angels had the best record from about June forward.

[/ QUOTE ] Yeah but they were both wildcard teams, which tells me they had to fight hard to make it to the playoffs. IIRC, Anaheim barely beat out Seattle in 2002 to make the playoffs.

I think Florida and Anaheim had good teams, but I honestly don't think they had the best team. That doesn't mean in anyway that their championship should be slighted, they won all those games fair and square, and were the better team in that series, but over a whole season(including playoffs), I am not sure I buy it.

[ThaSaltCracka]

well I really think Houston is going to play St. Louis. Whether or not they can beat them I don't know. I think St. Louis is probably the team to beat this year so Houston has their work cut out for them

[Uston]

Typical loser Red Sox fan, claiming it's not their fault that they never win, and hey, we're quite happy with their recent performance of getting to the playoffs with regularity.

So does this mean you're going on suicide watch when the Cards lose in the NLCS?

[Uston]

Based on run scored minus runs allowed, the Red Sox have the best team in baseball this year.

And this is why they'll win this year. Pythagoras is our friend.

[ThaSaltCracka]

Two ridiculous statements in a row...

[Uston]

Two ridiculous statements in a row...

Once again, I'm not completely sure what you're talking about.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I am not surprised.

[Clarkmeister]

I'll be pissed. And I'm quite certain it'll be something done by that doofus TLR that costs us.

[Uston]

Eh, if you don't engage in some serious self-injurious behavior, then you'll just be a typical loser Cardinal fan. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Clarkmeister]

Well, one thing you won't hear from me, and didn't hear after any of our recent postseason exits is:

"Well, we only had a payroll of $80mm"

"We weren't the best team in the playoffs anyway"

"We've been in the playoffs 4 of the last 5 years, that's pretty dang good."

What you did hear was "We got grossly outmanaged" and "Our hitters completely fell apart in pressure situations".

[Ed Miller]

It's why the Yankees win and the BoSox and Cubs constantly lose. It's heart.

How you like them apples? Johnny Damon MVP.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
It's why the Yankees win and the BoSox and Cubs constantly lose. It's heart.

How you like them apples? Johnny Damon MVP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whatever. Your boys won the first round last year two. There are only two meaningful postseason matchups for the Red Sox:

1. Any postseason series vs. the Yankees.
2. The World Series.

Last I checked you guys were 0-forever at those.

[Ed Miller]

Whatever. Your boys won the first round last year two.

It's the way they won today. After Vlad's slam and with the bases loaded in the 9th, they looked poised to concede the game. Two strikeouts. Fantastic.

[Michael Davis]

Garret Anderson's at-bat was marred by the awful strike call on the first pitch. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

-Michael

[andyfox]

And the fact that he's playing hurt.

But nobody can say the better team didn't win.