Easy fold with JJ on bubble

[jah0550]

Last night on Party ($10), I was dealt J /images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif UTG. Blinds t200-4 handed. Hero(900) min raises to 400. Button(225) folds. SB(4600) calls. BB(2175) raises all-in. What should Hero do here? The button will blind out in 3 hands. I will post the results later.

[ilya]

The Hero should not put himself in this situation. He should raise all-in -- or fold if he feels like a weak-tight sneaky-sneak-into-3rd monkey.
Seriously though, I think you just have to push.

[SmileyEH]

This is terrible. You are pot comitted and must call.

Push preflop instead.

-SmileyEH

[jah0550]

Flop
7 /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif
Turn
3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
River
10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
SB shows 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
BB shows K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif

[mikeyvegas]

Don't be results oriented. You have the 4th best hand in hold'em with less that 5bb remaining. Push and most times you'll double up or win the blinds.

[Sam T.]

I actually don't mind this play, and will sometimes use it myself, but for very different reasons. You are so short-stacked here that doubling up won't necessarily help much, and the blinds are barely worth their weight in pixels. If the 4th stack doubles or triples through on his inevitable all-in, you can't just fold your way into the money.

With 900 chips, 200 blinds, and JJ, I'll take as many customers as I can get my hands on. Limp, min-raise, do whatever it takes to get as many chips in the middle as you can. A touch on the dangerous side if overcards hit, but I don't want third. So limp, and hope for a raise to get all your chips in pre-flop, or just push whatever cards come on the flop.

[MrFeelNothin]

Definite push preflop. However now that youve committed half your stack you have to call. If you fold you will be looking at 3rd place at best. Button doubles up once and you could be out of the money. Might as well get your money in with what is likely the best hand and see if you can get yourself a stack. BB will usually not have you beat here.

[NotMitch]

Thats awful. If you want to wait the button out fold preflop, but pushing is way better. Yes you will bubble more but you will finish 2nd and win more as well which will be higher EV.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
Thats awful. If you want to wait the button out fold preflop, but pushing is way better. Yes you will bubble more but you will finish 2nd and win more as well which will be higher EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been wondering about "waiting out" a super-short stack...my intuition is that your ROI will not suffer if you NEVER do this. That can't be far wrong, can it?

[NotMitch]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thats awful. If you want to wait the button out fold preflop, but pushing is way better. Yes you will bubble more but you will finish 2nd and win more as well which will be higher EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been wondering about "waiting out" a super-short stack...my intuition is that your ROI will not suffer if you NEVER do this. That can't be far wrong, can it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldnt say never but I think most people do it too much. As the short stack gets shorter (example: will be all in once in the blinds) and/or you are so short that you chances of moving up are very slim, waiting out the shorty becomes a more reasonable play.

But the whole idea is to avoid marginal situations, and having JJ clearly isnt a marginal situation here. The bubble is often the best place to steal no matter what place you are in.

[tallstack]

FWIW, I believe that this is a clear push.

IMO, I don't believe that JJ UTG is worth any kind of a slowplay here. For one, if no overcards fall then who is going to pay you off on the hand? For two, overcards will fall on the flop about 57% of the time, so with multiple opponents you will be often putting your money in when you no longer have a good sense of where you stand. For three, one large part of the reason to slowplay is to let others catch up to a hand that will be second best so that they will pay you off. This would work well with AA when a K or Q falls, but I don't believe it works well with JJ. Here the hands that will play with you are likely to take the lead from you rather than become second best.

I also think that winning the blinds is very beneficial. You will be getting a free round of cards if you take down the blinds here and the player to your left will be forced into an all-in situation before you will see the blinds again. If someone does call your push then you have a hand with a good chance of winning a showdown, but winning the blinds puts you in much better shape, IMO.

Dave S