Your river move...

[Garland]

Location: Absolute Poker
Stakes: $5/$10
Players: Fairly Loose. No particular reads.

Absolute Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Garland is MP1 with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="CC3333">Garland raises</font>, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.40 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Garland bets</font>, CO calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Garland bets</font>, CO calls.

River: (6.70 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Garland ????

All comments appreciated.

Garland

[ErrantNight]

bet. you might have the best hand, and your opponent might fold unimproved. you're probably behind to an Ace w/ a mediocre kicker. give him a chance to fold unimproved. you're more likely here to get a better hand to fold than you are to get a weaker hand to bluff at you on this river (and your check will almost always be met with a raise).

[lil']

What better hand is going to fold here? (Answer - None)

I agree he can bet this river, but not because a better hand is ever going to fold.

[JinX11]

The weak/tightie in me says Check / Call.

On one hand, you certainly seem beat...on the other hand, the CO may be me, yet again overplaying 88 or 99. Just about any good cold-calling hand has you and a few bad cold-calling hands just back-doored something. Not worth having to call a raise on the river.

[Trix]

Out of pos valuebet.

[dejableu]

With no reads, bet. Against a medium player in terms of aggression/passivity, you will be calling hands that have you beat and seeing him check hands that you can beat. That's the worst of both worlds.

If, on the other hand, this player is a total calling station, then I check and expect him to check behind, even with Ax.

[Noodles]

[ QUOTE ]
, on the other hand, this player is a total calling station, then I check and expect him to check behind, even with Ax.


[/ QUOTE ]
If he was a total calling station i would definetly bet,he might call with any rubbish.
Did you mean to say if the player is very passive to check ,that would make sense

[Noodles]

[ QUOTE ]
, on the other hand, this player is a total calling station, then I check and expect him to check behind, even with Ax.


[/ QUOTE ]
If he was a total calling station i would definetly bet,he might call with any rubbish.
Did you mean to say if the player is very passive to check ,that would make sense

[Piiop]

[ QUOTE ]
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, on the other hand, this player is a total calling station, then I check and expect him to check behind, even with Ax.



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If he was a total calling station i would definetly bet,he might call with any rubbish.
Did you mean to say if the player is very passive to check ,that would make sense

[/ QUOTE ]

If he was a calling station I'd bet, if he was very passive I'd bet. The only times I wouldn't bet is if I had a very specific read that this player would bluff bet on the river if checked to because there would be a chance of me winning if I check-called.

Like dejableu pointed out, if you check and call, you'll be losing 100% of the time (ESPECIALLY against a call station or passive player). If you bet, you'll be called by some hands you beat, your opponent may fold, and if you're raised it's an easy fold.

[Garland]

Wow. I went through the range of hands my opponent would do these three things with: a) cold-call a preflop raise b) call the flop c) call the turn.

Certainly any pocket pair qualifies as well as Ax, a good K, or two broadway cards. Perhaps suited connecters would play too. I figured by the time he called the flop on a drawless board, something might be up also confirmed by the turn call. It's doubtful he's calling the turn on K high with the A on board. So the only things in my mind that I can beat by the river are 88 and 99 specifically. I also expect my opponent to check behind on the river on these hands.

I check-folded. I was hoping someone would encourage this action, but maybe I'm too weak. I certainly wasn't going to check-call, and I almost bet, but was willing to fold to a raise. I'm almost sure this opponent had at least an A for everything that happened.

So I rated the river actions as follows:

1) Check-fold to bet
2) Bet-Fold to Raise
3) Check-call

Thanks for all your comments.

Garland

[JinX11]

Ahhhh...last place for me. Know your role! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[balkii]

So the only things in my mind that I can beat by the river are 88 and 99 specifically.

garlard - the range of hands your opponent can hold that you beat here is MUCH wider than that. you consistently give your opponents too much credit. i had a guy with T5s chase undercards on a drawless board against me yesterday after I raised preflop. I bet my QQ on the river, and he called. T-high. Busted dra....well, busted something, cause he didnt have a draw.

I went through the range of hands my opponent would do these three things with: a) cold-call a preflop raise b) call the flop c) call the turn.

the opponents i play against - I cant even BEGIN to narrow down their holdings just because they coldcall, or call on the flop. I dont even try. most could have almost any two cards.


I think you missed a value bet.

[Garland]

Hi balkii,

May I ask where you play online? There may be a difference between where you play and Absolute. Absolute players tend to have some sort of clue. For example, my opponent wont call the river on K-high. (I can't believe you found an opponent willing to call on T-high! Not exactly a dime a dozen, don't you admit?)

I guess you've been spoiled a bit by horrible players, but here at $5/$10 Absolute land I give my opponents some credit unless proven otherwise.

Thanks as always for your comments.

Garland