Is there a man amoung you who can lay this down?

[ddubois]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="C00000">Button (t850)</font>
SB (t1185)
<font color="C00000">Hero (t800)</font>
UTG (t1150)
UTG+1 (t775)
MP1 (t1890)
MP2 (t655)
CO (t695)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls t15, <font color="666666">3 folds</font>, CO calls t15, Button calls t15, SB completes, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t50</font>, UTG calls t35, CO calls t35, Button calls t35, SB folds.

Flop: (t215) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets t200</font>, UTG calls t200, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">Button raises to t800 (All-In)</font>

[durron597]

Yes, and then I proceed to kick myself for making such a stupid preflop raise, and remind myself that this is why I don't raise so small.

[ddubois]

I frankly notice no difference between raising 40 50 60 70 80, you always get callers regardless. As I will only flop TPTK something like 30% of the time (is it less?), I've been very frustrated with AK lately, as it seems I am merely building a pot for someone else to win. (I have been extremely unsuccessful at taking down pots with flop bets when my AK has missed.) This is why I raised only 3.3xBB. I'm not saying it was right - I know conventional wisdom is to raise more with limpers - I'm just giving my rationale at the time.

[poboy]

[ QUOTE ]
I frankly notice no difference between raising 40 50 60 70 80, you always get callers regardless. As I will only flop TPTK something like 30% of the time (is it less?), I've been very frustrated with AK lately, as it seems I am merely building a pot for someone else to win. (I have been extremely unsuccessful at taking down pots with flop bets when my AK has missed.) This is why I raised only 3.3xBB. I'm not saying it was right - I know conventional wisdom is to raise more with limpers - I'm just giving my rationale at the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

This early in a game raising it to T50 is begging for callers. Early on I like to raise more than 3XBB, for exactly this reason. A bet of T120 or T150 would have probably been more appropriate, and even if he has 66 he probably lays it down. Granted you win a smaller pot most of the time, but it beats losing chips. If you do get a call at least than you can be fairly sure your opponent doesn't have something like K6 or 66. Just my thoughts....

[greytedeals]

i would call the all in. if he had the six, i think a smaller raise would be more appropriate, or even just a call. he might have Kx, or even 2 hearts.. just my opinion though

[EdCota]

Not on Party.

[Gramps]

The button's play screams flush draw or even a King/worse kicker. Many people would wait til the Turn to pop you with a 6. I'd call.

[durron597]

Alright I thought I had replied to this earlier but apparently it didn't go through.

Let's look at what you did: you raised T35 units into a T70 pot. So you weren't even giving the people to act after you 3:1 odds to call you (risking 35 to win 105). Since any non-dominated hand is never worse than a 65:35 dog, they should easily call you with any two cards.

Now if you had raised to make it more like 135 to go, then they would have to call 120 into a 215 pot, which is much worse odds for them to call. Plus there's the added psychological factor of "wow, that's a big raise" that will make some idiots fold. Plus it's more than 1/7 your stack, so the people who are counting on implied odds from low PPs to hit their set will fold, too.

The reason why you don't see any difference between raising 40 50 60 70 80 is that all of them are too low. Make a real raise, especially with three limpers.

[adanthar]

Easy, easy, EASY raise to either 75 or 100 PF, hence your problem.

I then bet far less- 125 or so- on this flop. This is a standard for me; I'm not making the flush draw fold on level 1 at Party no matter what, and if I have a choice between overbetting the flop or turn, I'm taking the turn (especially on this flop, on which I'm either way ahead or way behind and would like to see the action develop.)

Given this action, I think long and hard and then (probably) fold the flop- not because the button scares me that much, but because they probably don't *both* have flush draws and UTG's flop call spells trouble. Having said that, had I raised to T75+ PF, I would have called.

[lastchance]

Yeah, I lay that down. Like someone else said, UTG's call means trouble, and that means you're probably beat. The raise you made was weak. Sometimes, you do want to avoid a bullet early, but I want chips in with AKs, and I also want to be heads up.

[ddubois]

80 is pretty close to 75, yes? So you mean like this:

***** Hand History for Game 878136792 *****
Table Table 13852 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: Newbs1 ( $770 )
Seat 5: oliverisu ( $770 )
Seat 6: drill7 ( $790 )
Seat 2: P0K3RM4N ( $800 )
Seat 4: immoralmen ( $700 )
Seat 8: Avalanche77 ( $605 )
Seat 7: wsr453 ( $1845 )
Seat 3: keywesst ( $1055 )
Seat 9: AcesOnBB ( $665 )
Trny:5438872 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to P0K3RM4N [ Ah Kh ]
P0K3RM4N raises [80].
keywesst folds.
immoralmen folds.
oliverisu folds.
drill7 calls [80].
wsr453 calls [80].
Avalanche77 calls [80].
AcesOnBB folds.
Newbs1 calls [65].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jc, 8c, 2c ]
Newbs1 checks.
P0K3RM4N checks.
drill7 checks.
wsr453 checks.
Avalanche77 bets [125].
Newbs1 raises [350].
P0K3RM4N folds.
drill7 folds.
wsr453 folds.
&gt;You have options at Table 13813 Table!.
Avalanche77 calls [225].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jd ]
Newbs1 bets [200].
Avalanche77 is all-In.
** Dealing River ** [ 3h ]
Newbs1 shows [ Ts, 9s ] a pair of jacks.
Avalanche77 shows [ Td, Jh ] three of a kind, jacks.
Newbs1 wins 25 chips from side pot #1 with a pair of jacks.
Avalanche77 wins 1460 chips from the main pot with three of a kind, jacks.

Seriously, what's the point of raising this stupid hand that misses the flop 70% of the time? The more I raise with it pre-flop, the more pot-committed I feel, which causes me to stab away at calling stations who will "know I have AK" and call me with bottom pair.

In the last 90 SNGs I've had AKo 14 times during level 1, I've won 35% of the hands with it for a net loss of -0.22bb/hand.

I seriously feel like I should just limp with it, maybe hoping someone else raises to narrow the field - except limp-reraising is pointless, as I know no pre-flop raiser will fold and at best I'll be a coin flip, and sometimes be a huge dog (and on the coinflip times I will miss, because AK sucks).

[ddubois]

68 "They were suited"

[VarlosZ]

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, what's the point of raising this stupid hand that misses the flop 70% of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you probably have the best chance to win the pot, and when you hit your hand on the flop it's very strong -- so you want to play for more money.

Because the strong hand you're likely to flop -- TPTK -- is never the nuts, so you want to limit the field (and a decent-sized raise will limit the field, though not always as much as you'd like). If you flop TPTK in a 3-way pot, you can play it very confidently. If you flop TPTK in a 7-way pot, it's a pretty marginal hand.

If you're playing at loose tables, than stop taking stabs at the pot when you miss, particularly in the early stages. What you basically have is a draw -- maybe you can get there for free.

[The once and future king]

Well if I had the 6 I would push here because of the flush draw.

On party especialy in the lower buy ins players will chase flushes what ever the price/odds.

Remember because the board is paired the flush may hit but also complete the full house.

[Greeksquared]

I really don't have a problem with folding AK early in the tournament PF and especially when you are in early position. I like this play for a number of reasons... You have no read on anybody and lots of people will mistakenly think you are trying to steal and call you down with anything when your AK misses the flop. AK really prefers to be heads up...especially early in a tournament. Even a PF raise to 100 in the first round might not get it heads up. And then what do you do the 70 percent of the time when you miss and left staring at a T300 pot and are first to act. Very scary IMHO. What do you do when it hits...you have to prepared now to go all-in. It would be real hard to fold now.

SO...I'd much rather limp in EP with T7o than raise with AK. If I raise with AK in EP im really hoping that no one calls me and I get the blinds. Its just that you start out with so few chips at party and with such loose players that it makes AK so hard to play. At poker stars I would play this hand EP because I could lay it down on the flop even if it hit. Just because you have AK doesnt mean you are obligated to play it. Try limping in and playing cautiously early or just throw it away when you dont have position or are faced with a raise PF.

Make playing poker as simple as possible. Try and not put yourself in situations where you have no clue as how to act. Folding makes this easy of course...and it may not be the right play all the time but I think the ease of play has to count for something.

Of course you will get paid of some of the times when a hand you dominate gets in the mix. But if you are -.22/BB or whatever...then folding is looking like a good option. Saves you chips and stress.

This advice really only pertains to the first two orbits at party..I would obviously play AK at higher levels.

[durron597]

Not that it means much to you, but I would raise to 100 here. On one hand you probably will get the same callers but on the other you have the psychological factor of "damn, he raised to a three digit number" and they might fold. Or not.

[durron597]

You do realize that he played the hand perfectly here? He had odds to make the preflop calls at every stage, and used his implied odds to take your stack when he hit.

[The once and future king]

I wonder if there is a woman that can put this down?

A bit like in Lord of the rings when the Nazgul says:

"fool no man can kill me"

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
You do realize that he played the hand perfectly here? He had odds to make the preflop calls at every stage, and used his implied odds to take your stack when he hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you don't think this was a poor call initially (before the raise)? I mean, suited one-gappers are nice and all, but in a tournament?

[parappa]

I would say that if you can lay this down, you'd probably be better off simply folding AK for the first couple of rounds until your 3xbb will get some respect.

I agree that it doesn't really matter how much you raise it to. I've raised it to 150 with Aces before and gotten 6 callers. So mho is to raise it to whatever your best guess is about how much it'll take to thin the field and play carefully if you get 5 callers. I won't go higher than about 125 because the pot gets too big for me to do anything but push or fold on the flop, and I like to be able to have a shot with a pot-sized bet when overcards come and then slow down on the turn.

I double up an awful lot in this situation against a flush draw or a weaker king, and I also go out frequently in this situation. I'm happy with it as a winning play, subject to the problems in thinning the field, but if you're unwilling to push with TPTK here, I don't know what more you can expect out of the hand.

[durron597]

For 15 chips on the button? That's a great call, I make it every time with that many limpers.

[durron597]

I would be a lot more confident he doesn't have a 6 if I raised to 120-150. If he's calling raises for 15 percent of his stack with 68s, he has earned the right to get my stack (this time). 50 chips is another story, however, especially since he got those chips in with ridiculous odds.

[ilya]

Hmmm. Maybe I should consider it. I have been mucking suited connectors &amp; Axs regardless of circumstances -- I just really don't like that even if the flop hits you, you're still drawing. And on those rare occasions you flop a flush/straight, everyone who doesn't have you beat is usually too scared to pay you off.

[durron597]

Look, if you don't believe me, take it from someone who knows. Look at this hand:

A masterful use of suited one-gappers with deep stacks (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=883382&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;sb =5&amp;o=&amp;vc=1) - Note the keyword "deep" /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

[ilya]

I like that play and I would have done the same, but I think the situation is quite different there. First off, the stacks are 2-3 times deeper. Secondly, he's open-raising, not calling on the button! Don't you think that's an important difference? Thirdly, it's a multi-table tournament and so there's at once less need for FossilMan to establish a tight image at his table (it'll get broken up anyway) and more need for him to agressively go after chips (stealing's gonna be much harder with a full table). Not quite apples &amp; oranges but apples &amp; pears at least, imo.
Cheers,
ilya

[durron597]

In both cases the player is using implied odds to their full advantage. Since FossilMan has no limpers to him, he wants to raise to disguise his hand so when he hits his straight no one will see it coming and pay him off. In ddubois' case, he's limping behind several limpers, so since the pot is massively multiway he can hope that one of them will hit the flop hard enough to pay him off when he hits.

Also realize that because of ddubois' preflop raise, the Button can safely not put him on a 6 (he would have almost certainly checked with a 6, and he can't have 66 because there are only 4 6's in the deck), and also can safely not put him on KK because almost everyone would check a flopped full house. Thus the Button knows he has the best hand (everyone else folded), and that ddubois probably has a hand he can't get away from since he raised preflop and bet 1/4 of his stack.

I stand by my statement that Button played this hand perfectly.

[DrPhysic]

Go back and read every one of durron's posts on this, He's right.

IMO, There is nothing wrong with playing AK in early rounds. And there is nothing wrong with laying it down when you don't draw to it. But that's not quite the case here, you did draw to it, but you were beaten by your own pf bet.

The "standard" wisdom for playing AK preflop is raise 3-5 BB. The trouble with that is that a raise to 45 - 75 chips, just doesn't scare anybody, so they don't lay down hands they should not be playing.

Raise to $T120 pf. Now the guy with A6s, or 86s, or JTs or maybe even 66, has to think about it. Making him put another $100 on the table will often chase the drawing hands at early levels. You won't chase people holding AA - JJ and maybe even medium pairs, but at least you have an idea what you are playing against.

UTG was entirely right, as pointed out by durron, in limping for only 15 chips even though a medium suited gapped connector isn't much of a hand, and was right calling the raise given the implied odds.

Playing AKK66 hard after the flop is a good bet IF YOU HAVE CHASED THE DRAWING HANDS FIRST. It's not necessarily if you have let the drawing hands see the flop, because you don't know where you are.

Very often we are guilty of playing NLHE as a 7 card game. It's not. It is played until everybody quits, and often that should not be at showdown. If all you get by overbetting the pot is the limps on the table, take the 60 chips and run. If you do get to see a flop, at least you have limited the field to the better hands and are LESS often going to get clobbered by a crazy draw.

Just my opinion.

Doc

[ilya]

I agree that 86s played very well on the flop. But I still think the original call was dubious. There are several problems that I can see:

At the time she makes the first call, the pot's laying her odds of 3.67:1. 4:1, if she makes the reasonable assumption that the small blind will complete. Yet she will flop a flush draw fewer than 1 in 8 times. Even when she flops the flush draw, she'll often have to fold it to a big bet on the flop. And even if she makes her flush, it won't always win in a 5-way pot.

Also, if she flops a gutshot straight draw with a T9x flop, it's quite possible that someone will now have a gutshot/open-ended draw to a higher straight. Even if she completes her straight on the turn, her hand will be vulnerable to redraws on the river.
Come to think of it, even if she flops the straight, her hand will be vulnerable to redraws.

Also, while it's true that after the raise she can have some confidence that no one has a 6 (and to some extent an 8), she can't be nearly so sure at the time of the original call. So, she has to figure that even if she makes trips (a scary-looking flop that can make even quite loose players fold instead of paying everyone off), she won't be able to entirely dismiss the possibility that someone has her outkicked. Not to mention that the odds against flopping trips are quite high.

Cheers,
ilya

[durron597]

I think this post has been done to death, so I really don't feel like figuring out really good numbers for the odds of winning the pot at showdown when the 86s hits a draw. However, realize that because the 86s is the button, the player can use the power of position to take stabs at pots that are checked to them, and raise people allin with hands like pair+flush draw, pair + OESD, etc. If you factor in semi-bluff equity, this move IMO is very +EV.

I know that it was the hand he busted out, but if you saw the WSOP last night Gus Hansen made a play like this with 85s and he flopped a pair + flush draw. It was unfortunate that he ended up being against the nut flush draw and top two pair, but I have to believe he had been making similar plays all tourney that worked out, and that one just happened to not have.

[ilya]

Darn it, I really thought I might be able to convince you. I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree.

Just to be clear though: I would limp in a ring game or in a multi-table tournament. I just wouldn't do it in an SnG.

Cheers,
ilya

[DonT77]

How are your implied odds any different between a SnG and a MTT?

[ddubois]

In both cases the player is using implied odds to their full advantage.

I fuly understand your point, but it seems clear to me you are over-stating the value of implied odds here. He will only flip trips or two-pair once in 20 times, and he only gets my stack if the flop comes up 66K, 68A, 88A, etc (and then only maybe, if I can't let go). If the flop comes up two diamonds and an ace/king, I would bet enough to kill his implied odds to chase (for the people who say bet smaller on a two-heart board, this is why I pot it). If the flop comes up 79A, I will bet enough to kill his implied odds to chase. Using implied odds as a justification for his play is not as good of an argument as you make it out to be. The circumstances that allow him to get my whole stack don't happen nearly often enough, not for the sizes of the stacks invovled.

also can safely not put him on KK because almost everyone would check a flopped full house

I don't know if I agree with this. I would still lead out because I raised pre-flop and people expect me to bet. If I check, it looks suspicious.

Raise to $T120 pf

Why bother? So I can make 68s fold? Wow, that's so great, I made 68s fold - what a moral victory for me. And then as my reward I get to follow it up with folding 70% of the time the flop comes up T/J/Q high and QJo or ATo bets? Hoo-rah.

[DonT77]

I like to think of AK as a drawing hand, and if you hit the flop you'll likely be looking at TPTK. The problem of course is that TPTK doesn't play well in a 6 or 7 way pot, and that is the reason why you must raise enough to get this down to ideally 2 opponents. Now you're getting a 2 to 1 payoff + blinds for your 2 to 1 draw, and TPTK will play much better in a 3 way pot than with 3 or more opponents.

Also note that AK plays well in all-in situations because you are ahead of any other non-paired hand, and you are about a coin flip against 22-QQ PPs.

Another great thing about AK is that even if you miss the flop you've usually got 6 or more outs.

But then again, you can just fold AK at my table. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
In both cases the player is using implied odds to their full advantage.

I fuly understand your point, but it seems clear to me you are over-stating the value of implied odds here. He will only flip trips or two-pair once in 20 times,

[/ QUOTE ]

To call a 15 unit bet would mean he needs to win 300 chips every time he flops 2 pair or trips, not your whole stack.... and that's just with 2 pair or trips. To call the 35 unit bet would mean he needs to win one person's stack, and yours happens to be likliest because you were the preflop raiser, but he might also win a stack from QJ on a JJ6 board, etc. Also he only needs about 500 chips more than the 200 chip pot, so he needs a pot sized bet to be called about twice for him to have made money.... and again, this is just the two pair or trips numbers.

[ QUOTE ]

and he only gets my stack if the flop comes up 66K, 68A, 88A, etc (and then only maybe, if I can't let go).

[/ QUOTE ]

And that's what the flop came. Did he get your stack?

[ QUOTE ]

If the flop comes up two diamonds and an ace/king, I would bet enough to kill his implied odds to chase (for the people who say bet smaller on a two-heart board, this is why I pot it). If the flop comes up 79A, I will bet enough to kill his implied odds to chase.


[/ QUOTE ]

What if you were to get raised allin here? Do you call everytime on your A79 flop, knowing that your raise was tiny enough that A9 might have called you? Or 77 expecting you to have AK? It's not just 68 that has implied odds to make that preflop call, and there are hands that are beating you already. You have to raise to limit the range of hands, and if you think no one will push in with an OESD or a flush draw (or worse, a pair+flush draw or a straight flush draw which almost don't mind a call). If I have 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, and the flop comes A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif I damn well push basically every time, because of folding equity and the fact that I'm not that far behind one bigger pair.

[ QUOTE ]

Using implied odds as a justification for his play is not as good of an argument as you make it out to be. The circumstances that allow him to get my whole stack don't happen nearly often enough, not for the sizes of the stacks invovled.


[/ QUOTE ]

Implied odds, no. Also the fact that he's getting pretty damn good pot odds (as the button) and the fact that he'll probably get some implied odds from somebody when he hits and the fact that his hand often allows for some good semibluffs and the equity he gets from that make this an easy preflop call, and by far the correct play. It's not close.

[ QUOTE ]

also can safely not put him on KK because almost everyone would check a flopped full house

I don't know if I agree with this. I would still lead out because I raised pre-flop and people expect me to bet. If I check, it looks suspicious.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, that's fine, but 99% of people would not pot it, because flopping such a strong hand is only vulnerable to one hand (the made quads), and can easily give a free card. In fact I would say that a check-call or a check-raise or a half-pot bet are so much higher EV that I would almost call a pot sized bet -EV (it isn't, because you expect to make money with that pot sized bet), but it's relatively -EV.

[ QUOTE ]

Raise to $T120 pf

Why bother? So I can make 68s fold? Wow, that's so great, I made 68s fold - what a moral victory for me. And then as my reward I get to follow it up with folding 70% of the time the flop comes up T/J/Q high and QJo or ATo bets? Hoo-rah.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you lose your stack? Hoo-rah indeed, that 86s was such a terrible hand. Except, oh wait, in holdem any hand can win.

On another note, if you never take a stab with AK when you miss you are losing a lot of EV, but that's an issue for another time.

[ddubois]

[ QUOTE ]
Did he get your stack?
Did you lose your stack?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think smart-ass rhetorical questions are constructive to this discussion.

[ddubois]

Do you call everytime on your A79 flop, knowing that your raise was tiny enough that A9 might have called you?

So how do you magically raise large enough that 99 and A9 fold, but not so much that the only hands that plays with you are AK,JJ-AA? Do I even want A9 to fold? I just showed a hand where I got five callers with a t80 raise - is t120 is going to get A9s or 99 to fold? And do you fold when you get re-raised all-in on the flop after your wonderous and answer-to-everything t120 pre-flop raise?

[ddubois]

On another note, if you never take a stab with AK when you miss you are losing a lot of EV, but that's an issue for another time.

It's not that I've never taken stabs. I've taken them and, by a large margin, they've repeatedly been dismal failures. Are examples needed? I've tried leading out, check-raisng, following up with a turn push, whatever, they don't fold.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
How are your implied odds any different between a SnG and a MTT?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your implied odds aren't different, but I think in an MTT it's more important to try and build up your stack early, since you'll still be playing at a full table when the blinds become large.

[DonT77]

Sorry, but there is no hope for the unlucky.


But seriously, all you can do is play your cards right and your opponents to the best of your ability and hope for the best.

[DrPhysic]

In this case, I don't see the question as rhetorical.

Doc

[smartalecc5]

I call because generallly, he doesnt think you have the 6, and he probably has a K - albeit a lower kicker. I call this and cross my fingers!!!!

[HoldingFolding]

I have a similar problem with cheap SnGs on PP; it doesn't matter what your raise is, you'll get callers, so with no limpers I make it 3BB. First hand of a SnG last night should I have raised more PF?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed)

UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t800)
Hero (t800)
CO (t800)
Button (t800)
SB (t800)
BB (t800)
UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t15, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls t15, MP1 calls t15, MP2 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t80</font>, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls t65, UTG calls t65, UTG+2 calls t65, MP1 calls t65.

Flop: (t235) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+2 bets t25</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t200</font>, <font color="CC3333">BB raises to t755 (All-In)</font>, UTG folds, UTG+2 folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t1390

BTW: I went on to win the thing /images/graemlins/grin.gif and BB lost hand after hand with BS....

[ddubois]

Thanks for the advice!

***** Hand History for Game 932079124 *****
Table Table 13861 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 9: wascalllly ( $700 )
Seat 1: P0K3RM4N ( $800 )
Seat 5: Moshimo ( $800 )
Seat 2: dariop ( $770 )
Seat 6: bouzie67 ( $785 )
Seat 4: Albetino ( $615 )
Seat 8: thebigloser ( $800 )
Seat 7: Sir_B_Rock ( $785 )
Seat 10: Cassidy17 ( $1945 )
Trny:5758490 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to P0K3RM4N [ Kh As ]
Sir_B_Rock folds.
thebigloser calls [15].
wascalllly calls [15].
Cassidy17 folds.
P0K3RM4N raises [130].
dariop folds.
Albetino folds.
Moshimo calls [120].
bouzie67 calls [115].
thebigloser calls [115].
wascalllly folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8c, 7h, Js ]
Moshimo checks.
bouzie67 checks.
thebigloser checks.
P0K3RM4N checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2c ]
Moshimo checks.
bouzie67 bets [15].
thebigloser calls [15].
P0K3RM4N calls [15].
Moshimo calls [15].
** Dealing River ** [ Td ]
Moshimo bets [250].
bouzie67 calls [250].
thebigloser folds.
&gt;You have options at Table 13993 Table!.
P0K3RM4N folds.
Moshimo shows [ 6c, 6h ] a pair of sixes.
bouzie67 shows [ 2h, Th ] two pairs, tens and twos.
bouzie67 wins 1095 chips from the main pot with two pairs, tens and twos.

[durron597]

Did you consider moving in on that flop? Take advantage of your position. The 66 may call you (three overcards?) but the T2 definitely will not.

By the way, it's not fair to show me one hand and say "oh, they still call" as evidenced by this one hand. There will always be idiots out there.