Cocky Yes, Stupid Yes...Then Why?

[IndieMatty]

As some may see from my other post, last night was my Uber 2+2 style experiment on Party, (not to say this is typical 2+2, I was just very aggressive all night) No reads, typical table, Ive been in for 3 hands and won them all flopped two fullhouses, so they may fear my "luck". Obviouslt there is no respect to any raises given.I honestly had no read on the button, but the the entire table just seemed moronic.
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP3 folds, CO calls, <font color="CC3333">Button caps</font>, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (25 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
SB folds, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO folds, Button calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (14.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds.

River: (17.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 19.50 BB

Questions:


3 Bet this Pre-Flop?

If it's checked to me, why shouldn't I bet it? My thought process was no one here should have a 6 or 4 or a 2.
Right?

This is all plain stupid chip spewing madness right?

Results lata..

[sublime]

I would probably fold this preflop. AQo is a very senstaive hand.

[MaxPower]

I think folding pre-flop is the best option. I understand you were doing some kind of experiment so I'll ignore that.

I do like your play after the flop. I posted a similar hand a few months ago where numerous players criticized my play, but they were wrong and I was right /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

The pot is so huge after the flop that you are not going to fold, so you might as well be the aggressor.

When no one raises the flop, I like betting again on the turn for the same reasons.

Before the flop - chip spewing madness
After the flop - appropriate play for a huge pot

[IndieMatty]

Agreed, I used to just call, and I know thats a mistake now.

Im expecting to take some heat for this hand.

[MoreWineII]

"If it's checked to me, why shouldn't I bet it? My thought process was no one here should have a 6 or 4 or a 2.
Right?"

Probably. But they might have 88-JJ. QQ, KK, or AA have probably spoken up by now.

[J.R.]

I don't dislike your postflop play, (the preflop is another matter) and struggle to find a check anywhere but on the river but my thoughts aren't too clear right now..here goes with some sporadic and implusive thoughts

flop- bet is OK, maybe button has TT JJ and you can get the button to raise and narrow the field or if Button some other random crap if the moronic label is right you may have the best hand. I think this is a thin postflop bet, but having the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif weighs in your favor...and the pot is huge so it can't hurt too bad to fire and see what happens

turn- nobody raised the flop bet, maybe button is a moron with a worse hand or will fold another AQ or has AJ (I hope not AK), the two flop coldcallers look like a draw so I may be ahead of them and maybe the flop coldcaller's coldcalling will allow me to leverage out the button here or on the river if I keep firing, if the button raises me here I hate poker and probably have to ...call... the pot is huge.

river: dolt- I chop with the button if he has a worse A, I sucked out on AK, I hope utg has a draw, I'll be sick if I get raised on the river... the pot is huge..I bet

Maybe you indcue a bluff on the river form the button, maybe you try to check it thru, but I don't fault your postflop play and think it might be the best line.

[Grisgra]

Nobody's folding an ace -- and you chop with all aces. If they're all morons, then somebody could be easily trickling along with you with a small or medium sized pair, and avoiding flop and turn raises just because they don't want to scare anyone out - slash - are afraid someone has a bigger pocket pair.

So I don't see how the river bet gets you money. Anyone calling is (I'd say) almost certainly either tied with you or beating you. Anyone raising probably has you whupped, and you have to call due to the size of the pot.

But hey, I'm REALLY rusty right now, so take my comments with a truckload of salt. Not sure where my reasoning would break down though.

[IndieMatty]

Well, I haven't been raised yet, and I'm basically stone cold bluffing. Which is bad I know, but since my showdowns in limited exposure at the table are at 100% I'm thinking I might be able to get a better hand to fold. I also am very confident I won't be raised. Basically my thinking at the time was the only way to win this big pot is to bet.

[J.R.]

I wasn't sanctioning or advocating a river bet, and will more affirmatively state that I agree that a check is best ie free showdown, maybe button bluffs, no have to pay off a check-raise.. I suppose there is some value in not showing down but you aren't folding a pair here.

[J.R.]

what you doing is making a perhaps ill-advised value bet with nut no pair.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
what you doing is making a perhaps ill-advised value bet with nut no pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Make that, "the [likely] shared, nut no pair."

[IndieMatty]

BB shows 33...and..nope..not at all..

Imagine my shock when I was called with k-10 and the $70 pot floats my way.

The entire table groans... Original raiser had AQ, and UTG claims he had me beat...but didn't think his hand was strong enough; so he folded.

He did say "I'll remember that next time" which of course was an +EV play all by itself.

So Results were great, I probably won't be trying this crap again.

Thanks for the wake up.

[MaxPower]

[ QUOTE ]
BB shows 33...and..nope..not at all..

Imagine my shock when I was called with k-10 and the $70 pot floats my way.

The entire table groans... Original raiser had AQ, and UTG claims he had me beat...but didn't think his hand was strong enough; so he folded.

He did say "I'll remember that next time" which of course was an +EV play all by itself.

So Results were great, I probably won't be trying this crap again.

Thanks for the wake up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you even read the responses? I think you are getting the entirely wrong lesson from this hand.

Both J.R. and I thought that you played it well after the flop.

You absolutely have to bet the flop and the turn.

I think everyone should read this thread. Do you see the great things that can happen when you play aggressively in big pots?

[IndieMatty]

I did Max, I was referring to the river bet and even calling with AQo, I think that was universally aggreed to be the wrong move, no?

[MaxPower]

[ QUOTE ]
I did Max, I was referring to the river bet and even calling with AQo, I think that was universally aggreed to be the wrong move, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I misunderstood your comment. I think everyone agrees that playing the AQo was a bad move. The river bet is a bit thin perhaps.

Thanks for the interesting post.