Reading Hands

[Scavengerfolk]

I have been seriously playing/studying poker for five years and I have read many articles and chapters about "reading hands." I can't seem to do it. I have an idea of the relative strength of my opponent's hand to mine and I am able to lay down a big hand times, but should I be able to accurately determine the exact cards that he or she has?

[MikeGuz]

NOt really the "exact" cards but a "range" of cards. Of course in some cases the exact cards are or should be obvious.

[Pirc Defense]

You know, a good way to improve hand reading is to read the responses to hand histories that are posted for discussion on this forum. It's helpful because oftentimes the poster won't include the results, so who had what cards is kept hidden until a later date. If you read the responses to the hand, you can see the thought process of people as they try to deduce what the various players had. It's this thought process that will help you get better.

You'll see that instead of saying that MP1 definitely had AJo, they'll say that since he raised after one limper, bet out against two opponents on a J-high rainbow flop, then checkraised when an A hit on the turn, AJo is certainly a likely holding, but don't discount the possibility of AK and sundry other holdings.

[kgbwins08]

Pay close attention to your opponents, while your playing heads up with him or after you fold and have time to kill. Make notes in your mind of how he plays; "he raised with that hand/he bets a certain amount when drawing to a strait or flush/his lucky hand is K7 and raises with it, etc. Pay extremely close attention to your opponents, once you know how they play you'll know what they play and how. My 2+2 cents. /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[PokerNoober]

It is not possible to determine the exact cards., although you may be able to determine them within a range. Most good players will "erratically" and its very hard to know if they are bluffing, semi-bluffing etc.

[Annie Duke]

the most important thing is being able to put your opponent on a range of hands. It is rare that you can name the exact two cards he is holding. It is more important to know that he/she is on a flush draw, straight draw, is playing like he has two pair or trips, is likely to be bluffing, etc.

I wouldn't worry too much as long as your read on them in terms of relative strength or weakness is good. That is most of the battle right there.

Annie

[Navers]

How reliable are tells?

[MikeGuz]

I know you asked someone else but I put a lot in them depending on the player. I don't make a lot of it but with all the new players specially the internet jockies showing up playing way over their heads "live" I find the tells very telling.

Example: A live tournament a couple of days ago. Playing with a guy for an hour or so. I raised in LP with JJ had made a reraise I went all in he folded really quick. It wasn't the reraise it was the way he made it that told me it was probably a bluff.

[SA125]

There's 1 tell I find reliable. When the guy's hand is shaking as he bets.

I was out of the hand but saw it again last night. A guy on my left raised and capped PF the guy on my right. Flop came J high. Raise - Raise. The board paired on the turn and I saw the hand of the guy on my right shaking as he put in his raise. J's full. He had it.

[MikeGuz]

That can be a good tell but if it is some old guy like me you might just be seeing some sort of ailment like a sugar reaction so be careful.

/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Navers]

Shaky hands is something thats reliable because people can't really control that all too well.

Do the complex tells (like if a player looks a certain direction and holds his cards a certain way) work? Some of the basic, intuitive tells seem to work well, but as they get more complex they seem like BS.

[kgbwins08]

Tells are very important, whether it has to do with a glace at the chips or the betting pattern of a certain player.
A very good tell (found in Caro's Book of Tells) is found after a player looks at his hole cards(or after the flop/4th/5th are laid). If he glances at his chips quickly, it usually means hes tihnking about betting, therefor having a good hand. His "Strong means weak/weak means strong" section is quite useful as well. Check out the book, it will help some with picking up tells and realize which ones you are using. My 2+2 cents /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[Lawrence Ng]

Tells, as important as they are, are overrated for most limit games imo. Things like betting patterns and playing styles are far better indicators to narrowing a player's hand than tells are.

[Jaraim]

[ QUOTE ]
There's 1 tell I find reliable. When the guy's hand is shaking as he bets.

I was out of the hand but saw it again last night. A guy on my left raised and capped PF the guy on my right. Flop came J high. Raise - Raise. The board paired on the turn and I saw the hand of the guy on my right shaking as he put in his raise. J's full. He had it.

[/ QUOTE ]

When the maniacs are trying to buy a pot, I find that their hands are shaking. The difference is that the shake is a little less obvious because they're trying to conceal the tell, whereas a bad player with a great hand is only thinking about the money he's going to get.

Combine tells with betting patterns from bad players. You can annihilate them.

[Jaraim]

[ QUOTE ]
Tells, as important as they are, are overrated for most limit games imo. Things like betting patterns and playing styles are far better indicators to narrowing a player's hand than tells are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen. The problem with tells is that they don't work against the really, really bad players, because they will be very overconfident with their Js2d in the hole with a KcJcTc board. Betting patterns are a much more reliable "tell" than anything you can get by staring down a player. One guy (a semi-pro) I played with at a home tournament, back when I was a weaker player, had mmy patterns down perfectly and trapped me with my AA in the hole against his middle set.

[Louie Landale]

Exact card readings are a LOT more common when the opponent players predictably tight; yup you CAN often put a player on say "AJ" right away. It only comes up with loose players once in a while, usually after lots of raising has built such a pot that your read doesn't do any good: you are going to call this big pot anyway.

I believe the first step in reading is to at least try to figure out what YOU would have if you did what the opponent did; but be sure not to assume that that what's he's got. This excercise is best used when you are not involved. This excercise, actually, is used later to figure out what hand you are "representing" and can therefore figure out what some of the better players figure YOUR hand is.

- Louie

[Kirkrrr]

I think everyone's already said everything that could be said, but I'm going to mention this anyway /images/graemlins/grin.gif The key is to combine a normal range of hands with the particular player's betting patterns. Together, that should give you a very good indication where he's at most of the time (I'm talking average players here, not good/semi-pro etc).
Next thing after that is his typical play post-flop. Does he follow up his raises and fires at the flop? If called, does he shut down and show it down? If you saw him raise from UTG+1 with ATo, then KJs, then AA, then JJ, you now have a very good idea of what he's playing if you decide to call his raise with KQs or AQ. Obviously, calling with those types of hands is highly situation dependent but you know that if you get a good flop, you should be able to outplay him and your cards matter less (though if you happen to get something decent, it's always helpful /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

Kirk R.