Party $100 6-max idiot straight draw

[potato]

Party $100 NL 6-max. I've got about $105, I have villain covered.

Everyone limps and I check in the BB with 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif. $12 in the pot.

The flop is 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif. Checked to UTG villain who bets $7. Folded back to me. Should I just fold?

I was nearly positive this opponent did not have T9 here, but a hand with a ten or a nine is very possible (JT, J9, 89, something like that). I am also pretty sure he doesn't have a heart draw. Finally, I didn't sign on to Party to fold, so I call.

Turn is the best card I could have hoped for, the 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif. I check and he bets $7 into the $28 pot. I call.

The river is the 3/images/graemlins/club.gif. The pot is $42. I bet $50.

Comments?

[Sponger15SB]

what kind of hand do you think he has to justify such a huge bet?

[warlockjd]

These situations IMO are very player dependent. I usually try to avoid them. Here, I muck on the flop.

That being said, I am not a very advanced player, and online would not feel that my read is good.

However, given your play and hitting your straight, and the way the betting went, I don't think he has a higher straight so I like the fact that you are betting. Unless villain is a total moron, tho, I don't see him calling any more than a $30 bet.

[ QUOTE ]
Finally, I didn't sign on to Party to fold, so I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

This will get you in trouble if you are sitting at my table /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[SkippingGoat]

Easy and automatic fold on the flop. If you're not already drawing dead, you only have two clean outs. The fact that you're out of position limits greatly the amount you can make even if you hit one of your two outs on the turn.

[PokerFink]

I agree, fold this hand on the flop. It could cost you you're entire stack, and you're unlikely to win much when you hit the perfect four.

Once the four hits, I would have check/raised to avoid letting him draw a free straight on the river (as you said, J-10 is a likely hand). Then I would put in a more modest bet on the river, inviting him to call again.

[potato]

[ QUOTE ]
what kind of hand do you think he has to justify such a huge bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Something that beats a missed flush draw?

[Nottom]

I thought the river bet was the best part of the hand.

[Girazze]

What about a mid PP. He could easily have that. Villain limped in on the deal (mid PP scenario) and then bet big when he hit his set. I'm guessing he may have a set of 7s or 8s here and doesn't want to see any more cards and have someone build off their straight draw. You called the flop raise and got your straight. He's still betting on his trips. I'd take him all-in with my read.

[JrJordan]

Drawing hands out of position are almost worthless against an aggressive player. You can't reraise in an attempt to see a free card because you'll have to check the turn to him. He's giving you awful odds to draw to the ignorant end of the straight draw. Either raise as a BLUFF and try to take the pot, or the better choice is to fold.

[potato]

[ QUOTE ]
Drawing hands out of position are almost worthless against an aggressive player. You can't reraise in an attempt to see a free card because you'll have to check the turn to him. He's giving you awful odds to draw to the ignorant end of the straight draw. Either raise as a BLUFF and try to take the pot, or the better choice is to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who said he's aggressive? What if he has top pair and just believes he has the best hand? I would routinely make this bet in his position with a decent hand on the flop.

As I said in my original post, I don't believe I am drawing dead to a flopped straight, and I don't think this guy is betting a heart draw. So if he has JT, I don't have eight outs. But I am not going to get stacked with 56 on a 789J board, either.

[potato]

[ QUOTE ]
What about a mid PP. He could easily have that. Villain limped in on the deal (mid PP scenario) and then bet big when he hit his set.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you think he is so strong? He bet a little more than 1/2 pot on the flop, and he bet 1/4 pot on the turn.

[potato]

basically why I posted this hand

[Girazze]

Seeing all the checks and not much action, I'm thinking he wanted to try and get something out of it if he had the set. Of course $7 is a strong bet if you think everyone will fold but he still had folks behind him. If someone bet ahead of him, I bet he would have raised. I'm stuck on thinking he had a set.

[SayGN]

while i think you should have folded after the flop bet, you hit the perfect card to stay in on after you saw the turn. At this point, unless a 9 or a 10 flops, I don't think you are getting out of this hand (considering you didn't put him on a flush draw). You do need to bet the turn however, because my guess is that he either has trips or is trying to draw to a higher straight. Trips being more likely, I would raise because unless he is a very strong player, he is going to have a tough time laying down his cards here. Regardless of what his hand is, you don't want to let him see the river for cheap. If he is going to put you on a hand if you raise the turn it'll probably be the straight but he still has outs to draw to his higher straight or outs to hit the boat if he has trips. My guess is that he will call a reasonable turn bet if he has more than TPTK and once the river comes as a blank I think you need to bet a little bit less (1/2 pot considering you raised it on the turn). You hit your hand pretty well and the only thing that could second best you is 9-10. If he doesn't have that, he will probably pay you off and my guess is that he had trips and he did pay you off...but i think you could have played the hand better.

[schwza]

i agree that you should fold the flop. if a 9 hits, the only way you're going to get action is if the other guy holds the T for the higher straight. i'd fold even if the board were rainbow.

on the turn, leading and check-raising are both viable options. check-calling is not. a 9, T, 5, or 6 will kill your action (or beat you), as will a /images/graemlins/heart.gif or a card that pairs the board. you want to raise to get more money in the pot while you have the near-nuts and give him an opportunity to make an ill-advised raise. between check-raising and betting, i like betting more, as you really don't want to give a free card. you can hope that he'll raise with AJ or 77 or something.

the river bet is interesting. i rarely wind up making this kind of play, but i'll keep it in mind.

[potato]

Well, this was an unusual hand. I agree that the flop is an easy fold, but I don't think it's a horrible call, either. I'm glad most of you mentioned it as an aside, because I don't think it's what's interesting about the hand.

I don't like checkraising the turn here because it shows incredible strength. I might fold AJ against a turn checkraise on this board. I didn't read him for as much strength as some of you did, so I decided to play it like a flush draw and hope I "missed". I do like leading the turn because then AJ might even raise, and set would almost surely raise, and I could have gotten it all-in then. My goal was to get my opponent to call a large river bet with a relatively weak hand should the river blank.

My opponent called quickly with 77.