Bad habits from on-line tournaments?

[m2smith2]

What are some bad habits that develope from playing tourney's (especially single-tables) that can carry over to B&M tourneys?

I see much more limping on-line than live, but that could be a function of a lot of things.

I also see more huge hands - there are entire conspiracy theories about this. But, the number of times I've seen AA vs. KK at a table tourney is crazy. And, I don't think you can get away from KK in any short-handed game pre-flop. I think this could have the effect of making someone a bit timid with their strong, but not dominating, hands.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

I suspect the worst bad habit to overcome when moving from online to live tourneys is simply the character and style of the typical opponent you will be facing.

Online opponents tend to be looser and often more aggressive than live opponents. While there are plenty of really bad live opponents, they still tend to fold the total garbage hands, while online you never know. Also, there are a lot more huge all-in bets and raises online than I typically see in a live tourney. So, knowing when to give those big raises credit and when not to is more necessary online.

Basically, the fact that you're not facing the opposition online lets people make plays they would never try live, because there is none, or so much less, embarrassment to making the play.

So, when you get into a live tourney, you probably need to give a typical unknown opponent a little more credit than an unknown online opponent.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[m2smith2]

You made my day responding to this post. Thanks.

[bdk3clash]

Yes, it's the real FossilMan.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Glad to hear it. You're welcome.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[brassnuts]

HAHA, I like the new avatar, bdk.

[mikewvp]

I found it odd that you said you see more bigger hands in live games than online. However when I sit and think about it, is it not true that the cards dealt online are much more random than having a dealer shuffle a few times? The difference probably isn't much, but I'm sure there is a difference.

Edited to add the word 'more' into the first sentence.

[Rocaix]

I think the idea that powerhands occur more often online is bunk. Players may have tendency to think that's the case due to selective memory.

Remember your probably playing 2-2.5 times as many hands per hour online as you would in real life. Thus your odds of seeing the power hands is increased proportionally. That to me seems the most likely explanation for seeing more "power hands" online.

Although it could be a big conspiracy by the Online poker sites(unlikely), but we won't know for sure unless we see the software source code.

[m2smith2]

Maybe I'm lame, but it was a thrill to see a response from him - besides being a World Champion, also a 2+2 forum legend...

[m2smith2]

There are certain myths in on-line - like runs of bad luck after cashing out. Somone in CP had a brilliant-and-obvious observation about that which was that people reduce their backroll relative to the limit they are playing.

I've always assumed it's the number of hands as well. Still, I fall for the notion at times. I'm much more likely to push a good-not-great hand live.

Now, when you see me on-line you can push me off my hands...

[ammbo]

New Avatar R0x0rs, bdk!

[betgo]

Are online opponents looser and more aggressive at the same buyin level? How does the skill level compare at the same buyin? The smallest buyin tournaments are offered only online and the biggest buyins are only offered B&M.

[ZootMurph]

It really depends on the tourneys. I play in a live tourney once a week in Atlantic City... sometime the Taj, sometimes the Borgata. But, it seems to me that online you will get many more hands in during a level, and so you have to be more loose and aggressive in B&M tourneys, because you are getting less hands and need to work harder to build your stack.

However, if you are talking about a major tourney, like the WSOP, where your the blinds are a very small percentage or your starting stack early, and the levels are longer... then I would say that play is generally tighter in the B&M event.

Basically, all online tournaments play the same, whereas all B&M tournaments can differ in many ways. I think the differences come out in the way starting chips, blind structure, and level timing are set up.

[Teldar]

I'll tell you my bad habit. Because I usually play online ring games as well as online tournaments, I find myself always rushing my decisions. In ring games, as everyone knows, you have like 15 seconds to act. This bad habit definitely crosses over to my tournament play. I find myself making bad calls because I rush the decision. I'm working on getting better. Anyone else have this problem? What little tricks do you use to fix it?

[ZootMurph]

Experience is the best solution to rushing decisions. The more experience you have, the more you will have seen situations like this one, and can make a better decision in a shorter period of time.

Also, try to play out the hand ahead of time, especially as you are waiting for others to play... Asking yourself "What will I do in if UTG bets out big?" or "What kind of flop am I looking for to bet at?" If you have experience in chess, you can use it here by playing out the hand ahead of time and running through the many permutations.

Finally, read the players at your table. Just because you can't see their tells doesn't mean you can't get a read on them. Figure out how they are playing, and you can prepare yourself in advance in situations against the player.

[cferejohn]

The reason you see alot more big hands online than live, is because you see alot more hands, period online. In a small live tournament with 15-20 minute levels (pretty typical in the bay area), you are very lucky if you get a full orbit/level. You might get significantly less if you get one of those yahoos who thinks they need to take 15-20 seconds for EVERY SINGLE DECISION. Try to note the hands/hour next time you are playing a live tournament. It's probably ~30.

Online, you can see 40, 50 or more hands per hour. More hands equals more big hands equals more times you will see AA v. KK.

Also, when I am playing online, if I bust out early, I'll usually find another tournament or play sit-n-goes or something, thus affording me the opportunity to see even more hands. Live, I might sit down at a ring game if the list isn't long (and even if it is reasonable, I might have to wait 20-30 minutes), but more likely, I'll go home and, yes, play online, where I will see many many more hands.

If you are spending about the same amount of time in a B&M casino as you are playing online, you are probably seeing at *least* 3-4 times the number of online hands.

And I haven't even mentioned multi-tabling...