I'm dropping down to 10+1 from 30+3 to play Aleo's guide verbatum

[AA suited]

i've never followed Aleo's guide to the T, but I'm beginning to follow it even less and less and my ROI shows it. -30% this month in 25 $30+3 SnG's.

so i'm dropping back down to 10+1 to not only go back to the way i play, but to play EXACTLY how the guide suggests to see how much more effective it is than the way i play.

ie: i've never raised 3BB at level 4+ b4 with good cards or to steal. 2BB seemed to work for me-> Less risk to stack, and same results. if they had something, the called else they fold.

but i didnt follow the 3BB rule for long to give me that big of a sample.

Then after I've re-trained myself, i'm going to see how well the guide plays at 50+5, 100+9 and 200+15. (after i won enuf to have the bankroll to play at these levels /images/graemlins/smile.gif )

[Jason Strasser]

I've never completely read the entire wonderful famous guide, however I do remember Aleo saying that no one followed it verbatum. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[djcolts]

I remember Aleo even posting that he thought following it to the letter would make you a small winner/break-even player at 10+1, and that his bubble play is much more complicated than the guide suggests which is why he was able to become successful at the 10+1 (and higher) SNGs.

[poboys]

FWIW I think that the starting hand criteria for the early levels is way to strict. If you follow that section, you'll wind up at the 50/100 level with T600 in chips and fighting to stay alive.

I do agree, for the most part, with the betting philosophy, however.

[Mr. D]

You'll be giving quite a bit of information to those who have read the guide as well if they realize what you are doing. A few bluff raises will cripple you. Maybe if you play the right time of day you can sneak under the radar..

On a simialr note, I've always wondered if there is a place online where you could use sklansky's improved all-in system (as detailed in TPFAP) and make a tidy profit. Definitely not the 10+1 SNGs, but maybe at higher stake SNGs or the 3 table tournaments.

Anyways.. good luck. If you find the right competition you will certainly do well, but look out for those who've read the guide.

[Algasm]

I think making the minraise steal could be most of your problem as you will get more callers with garbage hands that can outflop you. I made this mistake last night in a $30+3 and ended up in 3rd. He would have folded to a 3x raise or an allin but with just a minraise he called. Then of course I bet into him... my bad.
Do you have your distribution of finishes? Can you tell us how you usually go out?

[Jurollo]

Just as a thought, which others have echoed. Playing any guide, not only Aleo's verbatim won't make you a long term winner, you need to take your own creative license.

[Bmurn]

i think your going to be greatly disapointed with the results if you try to follow his guide 100%. for instance, my bubble play is very different sometimes depending on the game. And you will find yourself making poor all-ins, and maybe finishing just out of the money.

[BradleyT]

I agree with the others. It's a reference - not a bible.

[gergery]

I find Aleo’s guide useful for grounding me back to the basics after I’ve been watching too much Gus Hansen on the WPT.

Aleo himself also says it won’t work at higher levels, and has said it is not a complete and accurate way to play even at the 10+1s, but instead is a simple way to to be ROI+ if you are too new to make appropriate adjustments.

--Greg

[AleoMagus]

[ QUOTE ]
I've never completely read the entire wonderful famous guide, however I do remember Aleo saying that no one followed it verbatum.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should drop whatever you are doing and read it!

I guarantee if you follow it, you will either get a 65% ROI at the $215 level or lose a LOT of money trying.

Regards
Brad S

[William]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've never completely read the entire wonderful famous guide, however I do remember Aleo saying that no one followed it verbatum.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should drop whatever you are doing and read it!

I guarantee if you follow it, you will either get a 65% ROI at the $215 level or lose a LOT of money trying.

Regards
Brad S

[/ QUOTE ]


LOL, I guarantee you that at the 215 level you WILL lose a lot of money if you always play the same stereotyped game.

Adjustment to the table, level and other player's stack is the key to succes in poker.

William

[AleoMagus]

I would consider this a great idea in the interest of rigorously determining what kinds of results the 'guide' can acheive at 10+1 and beyond, but as I suspect you are actually hoping to make money, you might want to consider using judgement occasionally.

I don't want to give people the wrong idea here. The guide is not a bad way to start playing sngs, and if you find that you are in a miserable losing streak, it can even be a good way to get back to less creative play when your creative plays are actually really bad.

The point though is that the guide is FAR from an optimal way to play sng poker and if you feel your own poker experience is really telling you that a suggestion in the 'guide' is just plain wrong in your particular situation, you might be right.

The biggest tip off of that is the fact that the 'guide' in it's condensed form is only ONE PAGE! If I thought good poker could be described in one page, I'd quit playing.

So I suppose I don't know your particular experience level and don't want to offer too much advice about when to trust yourself, but I'm just cautioning you not to go overboard and not to expect too much. If you broke even over the next 100 sngs playing the guide I would not be surprised at all. In fact, if you got the same -30% ROI I might not even be too surprised. There are just too many factors that the guide does not take into account and you could easily keep making crucial errors on the flop while still 'following the guide to the T'.

Who knows - Maybe what I am saying is 'It's not my fault if you keep losing.' and in that case you should reconsider your confidence in the verbatim plan because if I'm not confident...

If you do attempt this, be sure to keep us posted on the results.

Good luck
Brad S

[AA suited]

yup, will keep you posted.

also, if you play differently now than when you wrote your guide, how about updating your guide? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[AA suited]

off to a bad start..4 10+1
3rd: 1
5th: 1
10th: 2

both 10 place finishes i had QQ, raised 100, opponent re-raised, i went all in and both times opponent had ak and flopped A or K /images/graemlins/frown.gif yeah i know, variance happens...

5th place: it was lvl 5, i had tt. guide says raise 3bb from any position at this lvl if i'm 1st into the pot. and i was, but a 3BB raise would have been 1/2 my stack so i went all in. someone called and caught his A.

3rd: guide said gamble for 1st, settle for 3rd. blinds were 200/400. i was bb and i'm down to 3BB after posting. button and sb called. i had A6s. i figured this would be a good time to go all in. they both call. flop didnt help. sb checked, button went all in, sb folded. button had ATo /images/graemlins/frown.gif

now that i've re-read the guide, i now remember why i veered away from some of it from the start. the parts about what cards to have to steal and what cards to have to push when your short stacked (3BB) is waaaayy too tight. those cards dont come up that often and logically it looks like you will be shortstacked/blinded out if you just go by those.

but i'll stick with the guide verbatum and see if this actual happens since i never done it once.