A-Qo Party 2/4 [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

mikeyvegas

07-12-2004, 11:55 PM

I'm not sure about this hand pf in the sb. Is this an auto raise or is it # of limpers dependent? I really didn't want to raise, but that's probably cause I'm a wimp. For the bets on the turn and river I felt that I could very well be ahead.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 4 folds, Hero completes, BB checks,

Flop: (4 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks.

Turn: (2 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG folds, MP1 folds.

River: (4 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 6 BB
Main Pot: 6 BB, between Hero and BB. > Pot won by Hero (6 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Qc Ah (two pair, sixes and fives).
BB shows 4c 2s (two pair, sixes and fives).
Outcome: Hero wins 6 BB.

Rico Suave

07-13-2004, 02:03 PM

Mike E Vegas:

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure about this hand pf in the sb. Is this an auto raise or is it # of limpers dependent? I really didn't want to raise, but that's probably cause I'm a wimp.

[/ QUOTE ]

Easy preflop raise. I almost always raise AQ out of the blinds. It is harder to play out of position when you miss, but your hand is usually so much better than the limpers' hands, that it is a mistake not to punish them for limping with crap.

You need to print this history out, making sure to include the bb's hand, and refer to it everytime you have a tough decision on whether to value bet the river at Party 2/4. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

--Rico

StellarWind

07-13-2004, 02:47 PM

Easy raise preflop. If you had limped in with A8s, JTs, or 33, would you be happy that AQo raised you? What if you had a complete piece of trash as they so often do? And how about if you were BB hoping for a free chance to flop big with 97s?

Make them miserable. Raise. AJo is enough for me and I am one of the calmer ones around here.

I would have advised you not to bet this river. I thought that a worse hand would rarely call but might bluff. But there is just nothing I can say that outweighs BB's calling for half the pot with 4-high. Wow.

sthief09

07-13-2004, 02:53 PM

I refuse to read a post where a person doesn't raise PF with AQo. after all that's been written here about it, I find it unfuckingbelievable that people are still calling with it

GuyOnTilt

07-13-2004, 02:56 PM

A bit caustic today, aren't we? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

GoT

mikeyvegas

07-13-2004, 02:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
...I find it unfuckingbelievable that people are still calling with it

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I think I get your subtle point.

Rico Suave

07-13-2004, 03:06 PM

Sthief:

[ QUOTE ]
I refuse to read a post where a person doesn't raise PF with AQo. after all that's been written here about it, I find it unfuckingbelievable that people are still calling with it

[/ QUOTE ]

a.) Not everyone can spend as much time on the forums as we can. Perhaps he has not read the numerous threads on the subject.

b.) I am quite certain, when I was new to the forums, I made many posts on subjects covered numerous times by the veterans. Did you not?

I understand your frustration....hell, I share it. But you seem wound a little tightly....

Breath in.......Breath out.......Breath in.......Breath out.

Feel better? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

--Rico

mikeyvegas

07-13-2004, 03:24 PM

I just got done reading this post (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=smallholdem&Number=287441& Forum=f3&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=500&Main=287441 &Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=12&daterange=1&new erval=2&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev= #Post287441) and I feel a little better about raising in this position. I don't mind people being blunt with me, just wish it was a little more constuctive. I do value most of your posts though.

StellarWind

07-13-2004, 04:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind people being blunt with me, just wish it was a little more constuctive. I do value most of your posts though.

[/ QUOTE ]
Some people learn better the StellarWind patient-explanation way and some learn better the sthief baseball-bat way.

I'm betting you will think twice before completing with AQ next time /images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

That makes sthief's post very constructive indeed.

sthief09

07-13-2004, 04:18 PM

did I get my point across?

if the answer is yes, then my post was very constructive.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=smallholdem&Number=798 507&Forum=All_Forums&Words="a%20rule"&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=798507&Search=true&whe re=sub&Name=8444&daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype= m&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post798507]http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=smallholdem&Number=798 507&Forum=All_Forums&Words="a%20rule"&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=798507&Search=true&whe re=sub&Name=8444&daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype= m&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post798507 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=smallholdem&Number=798 507&Forum=All_Forums&Words=)

even though everyone disagreed with me, in my mind I'm right /images/graemlins/grin.gif

sthief09

07-13-2004, 04:35 PM

I agree with your points. I post here more than just about everyone. I probably do have more posts/day since I've registered than anyone, so I do have the benefit of reading more posts. but raising AQo has been discussed so many times, it makes me sick having to read it day in and day out.

I like teaching. that's why I post here. I think I have a good enough understanding of the basic principles of the game that I can help people get better. I never intend to be condescending with my responses, or to be a dick to anyone. But when people don't get somethign the first few times, I think it calls for, as StellarWind said, the baseball bat approach. I didn't call him a bad player, I didn't call him stupid. I just find it difficult to "teach" when people fight against me. And it's just just me. I pretty much just regurgitate everything I read here.

It's a shame, because the hand is interesting post-flop, and I derailed the thread.

If it was his first post, then I would've been "nicer." But it's not. He posts here all the time, and gives good advice to people. It's a shame that an otherwise good player is making mistakes like this that even some terrible players don't make.

but when all's said an done, I don't think he'll be limping with AQo, and that's all that matters. I'd rather be a dick and get my point across when I'm right than be nice and have someone ignore my advice.

mikeyvegas

07-13-2004, 04:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
...but when all's said an done, I don't think he'll be limping with AQo...

[/ QUOTE ]

TRUE.

BTW, I just got done reading that "rule" thread. I had been auto raising all the hands listed in the initial thread except AQo. That has now changed.

MoreWineII

07-13-2004, 04:56 PM

Now I know not to limp with AQo *ever* and I didn't even have to take a verbal beating! /images/graemlins/cool.gif

sthief09

07-13-2004, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Now I know not to limp with AQo *ever* and I didn't even have to take a verbal beating! /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

it's fine as long as you don't take it too far. one day, when you happen upon a togh 20/40 game, and 9 tight players who play well postflop limp to you, raising AQo probably isn't the best idea.

I think a lot of the preflop concepts that are discussed on this board basically just bridge the gap between our games and the games that HPFAP refers to specifically. fortunately, the way things are going, you may never find yourself in a HPFAP game.

Rico Suave

07-13-2004, 05:02 PM

Sthief:

Do not get me wrong. I like you posting style. You have good points and your delivery exudes confidence. Your posts are way more entertaining to read than my posts, and certainly have more impact. By all means, keep being a dick...it works.

--Rico

MoreWineII

07-13-2004, 05:06 PM

Unless my wife suddenly has a change of heart and sees the light (doubtful /images/graemlins/frown.gif ), 4/8, 5/10, 10/20 @ the local casino (average players) will be pretty much the scope of my poker career.

So the AQo advice definitely applies to me.

StellarWind

07-13-2004, 05:17 PM

I have identified a small number of tight but somewhat passive players on Paradise who play quite well except for not betting/raising their good draws and fair made hands.

If such a player open-limped on the button I would just complete from SB with AQo. To do otherwise would be to invite a reraise. Most of these players are familiar with book play and steal-raise when they open on the button. They don't play any junk so there is no temptation to just limp. The only time they seem to limp is with a premium hand as a slowplay.

I've seen this deathtrap sprung several times by different players. I think they wait so long to get a good hand that they can't bear to waste it on the blinds.