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Old 03-21-2004, 01:41 AM
jaydoggie jaydoggie is offline
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Default turning good hands into 72o.

I recently read, and reread, reread TPFAP for the past 3 days. This is one of the concepts that Im interested in, but Im not quite understanding.

"beginning no-limit players make a common mistake, putting in fairly big bets or raises before the flop with hands that are very good, but not so good as to welcome a reraise."

referring to AQ[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or TT.

Ive found myself in situations like this late in multis, or in the mid rounds. blinds 75/150. i open raise top 450. and someone comes back allin, and i hold a hand like 88/99 or AJs.

do i open raise with hands like this? or do i limp? so confused [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

the reason i dont open raise with 72 is because when i get called im in trouble. and becuase i play mostly poor low limit players i do get flat called alot. but later in multis i run into better players and alot of them play back.

maybe the keyword/phrase is "fairly big bets"?

someone help me.
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  #2  
Old 03-21-2004, 03:03 AM
eastbay eastbay is offline
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Default Re: turning good hands into 72o.

[ QUOTE ]

Ive found myself in situations like this late in multis, or in the mid rounds. blinds 75/150. i open raise top 450. and someone comes back allin, and i hold a hand like 88/99 or AJs.


[/ QUOTE ]

You want to limp those hands in a typical situation. Short-handed or short-stacked, limp turns into push.

eastbay
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  #3  
Old 03-21-2004, 03:13 AM
Bluff1 Bluff1 is offline
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Default Re: turning good hands into 72o.

Aq, TT, JJ, and even QQ are the hands the cause people the most amount of trouble. In early position I would fold all those hands except qq and I would probably limp with it. It late position I would raise and if someone reraised me it would determine on my read of the player on what I would do. I also want to say that if I'm short stacked or half of the average stack in a multi way with the blinds you mentioned I would just move in with them. For what its worth this is the same reason why I almost always limp in with ak in early positions because if someone reraises you all in it's just to hard to know what move to make most of the time. But again short or half of average stack in multis I just move in with it.
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  #4  
Old 03-21-2004, 05:33 AM
AJo Go All In AJo Go All In is offline
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Default Re: turning good hands into 72o.

folding JJ to no raise and open-limping with QQ are, in most cases, poor plays.
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  #5  
Old 03-21-2004, 08:55 AM
t_perkin t_perkin is offline
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Default Re: turning good hands into 72o.

This is where position and the table is important.

If the table is not very aggressive PF (i.e. almost no reraises) then I make a lot of small raises (2.5BB) in CO/Button with mid PP - especially if it tends to get checked to me on the flop (take the free card).
AJs I may play in a similar way in CO/Button.
All of these hands I would fold to just about any reraise.

If the table is more aggressive then I would be folding a lot more.

In EP I would limp if I think there is a 50% ish chance of getting in with no raise. If a raise does come I would call a min raise and not a lot more (unnless there are a lot of players in)

If I don't think there is a 50% chance of getting in with just a limp then I would fold up to JJ and AQs.

MP is just half way between EP and LP. It is just a matter of thinking how many players you are going to get calling and/or raising behind you.

tim
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  #6  
Old 03-21-2004, 12:12 PM
eastbay eastbay is offline
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Default Re: turning good hands into 72o.

[ QUOTE ]
Aq, TT, JJ, and even QQ are the hands the cause people the most amount of trouble. In early position I would fold all those hands except qq and I would probably limp with it. It late position I would raise and if someone reraised me it would determine on my read of the player on what I would do. I also want to say that if I'm short stacked or half of the average stack in a multi way with the blinds you mentioned I would just move in with them. For what its worth this is the same reason why I almost always limp in with ak in early positions because if someone reraises you all in it's just to hard to know what move to make most of the time. But again short or half of average stack in multis I just move in with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You must play with players that are 10x better than the ones I play with in PP $30 SnGs.

I'll call a re-raise all-in with JJ and be way ahead 5 times out of 6. Throwing away AQ, even to a re-raise, in these games is like burning hundred dollar bills. You're going to see Ax when you play back way more often than AK.

eastbay
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  #7  
Old 03-21-2004, 12:23 PM
Bluff1 Bluff1 is offline
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Default Re: turning good hands into 72o.

This is the difference in where you play most of your games east and where I play mine. At stars if you call an all in reraise with jj or aq you will be dead most of the time at stars. I agree at party I have no fear and am hyper aggersive with such hands but again at stars playing the hands the way you mentioned will break you very quickly.
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  #8  
Old 03-21-2004, 12:34 PM
Bluff1 Bluff1 is offline
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Default Re: turning good hands into 72o.

Again at stars I will muck jj from an ep all day long. There is little vaule when someone will almost always raise you and you can't move in with it early. Again later in the game its an all in hand. But early in a trny jj, tt, and Aq have little value if no value from an ep.
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  #9  
Old 03-21-2004, 12:49 PM
eastbay eastbay is offline
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Default Re: turning good hands into 72o.

[ QUOTE ]
This is the difference in where you play most of your games east and where I play mine. At stars if you call an all in reraise with jj or aq you will be dead most of the time at stars. I agree at party I have no fear and am hyper aggersive with such hands but again at stars playing the hands the way you mentioned will break you very quickly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't doubt it. I've definitely played in games where what you say makes a lot of sense. I just wonder why people select tougher games intentionally.

But, go ahead and stay over there. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

eastbay
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  #10  
Old 03-21-2004, 12:58 PM
Bluff1 Bluff1 is offline
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Default Re: turning good hands into 72o.

I have acutally started playing party these days a little can't believe how bad they play there. I've had to adjust a lot from stars to party.
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