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Old 03-15-2004, 01:48 PM
Senor Choppy Senor Choppy is offline
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Default Results of 150 NL SNGs on Party

Some background: I'm a 3/6 limit player normally and haven't played in a SNG in over a year before 5 days ago. (I probably played in ~50 then without success). I wanted to see how profitable these would be so I decided to try and get results for 100 or so to see what's possible. All were $30 NL SNGs on party except 1 $30 PL SNG and 1 $100 NL SNG (both were signed up for by mistake). I played 2 tables for the first 20 or so, then 4 or 6 simultaneously afterwards.

Overall results: 150 tournaments, 20 firsts, 19 seconds, 24 thirds. Finished in $ 42%. Average finish 4.2. Total buy-ins: $5026. Total won: $6150. Net: $1124. ROI: 120% $/hour: $10.74.

Longest streak out of the money was 9, which happened 3 times. Best streak so far was 10 where I had 4 firsts, 4 seconds, and 1 third.

My luck seemed pretty lousy at first and only recently has reversed. I only bring this up to put the overall numbers in perspective, although my ROI seems high and so maybe it's just the whole remembering the bad beats that someone puts on you and not the other way around thing.

I just wanted to share in case anyone else was curious about profitability of SNGs. If anyone wants to comment on their ROI with larger sample sizes, win rate, in the $ percentages, etc. I'd love to hear it.



Also, for anyone running bad I just had biggest comeback of my short career in these the other night (boring recount to follow, just fair warning)...

I was a short stack of T468 through the entire thing and just posted the bb of T300. Someone raises to T450 and all-in and I call and lose with 85o. I'm down to 18 chips. (I was heads-up at two other tables so I stopped paying attention to this table and moved in when I normally wouldn't have).

First hand, I have J8o, call with my 18 chips and triple up with I hit two pair against an unimproved king in the blind. Next I have k5o and triple up with two pair again against k8. I have something resembling a stack at this point so I start paying attention and fold 75o.

I'm in the bb again and I'm forced in with 84o against AQ. Pair of 8s beats ace high and I'm up to almost 500 chips. I'm very amused and so is the table. I fold 73o in the sb as it's down to 4 and the other guy on the bubble is low on chips at this point and I don't quite have odds to call this.

Next hand I have 44 and move in. The sb and bb both call. This time I flop a set with a 3 flush on board. The sb bets into the chip leader for some reason with q high and no flush draw and knocks him out, I make a full house and I triple up again.

Next hand, ATs, chip leader limps, I raise all in, he flips over kings. Oops. Flop is king high with 2 of my suit. Turn gives me the flush. River gives him no help and I'm up to T2016 now.

I fold a few hands until I pick up a9s in the bb. Someone asks if this is for real. Someone moves in with k9o. I call and hit another flush and hopefully answer the gentleman's question.

Heads-up now, I have 66 and move in. The guy calls with ATo. No help for him, another set for me, and I'm the chip leader.

Last hand he limps in the sb with 52o and I check with 93. I make a pair of 3s and move him in by the turn. He misses his draw and I hit trips on the end fo' fun, and my opponent has the last word with "dood wtf" [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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  #2  
Old 03-15-2004, 02:15 PM
Bozeman Bozeman is offline
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Default Re: Results of 150 NL SNGs on Party

For the record, ROI is net/buyin, not gross/buyin, so your 22% ROI is a bit weak for a good player. Aim for 30-50%. Still, if 4-6 at a time doesnt negatively affect your return, you are a much better multitable player than I am.

Craig
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Old 03-15-2004, 02:45 PM
Senor Choppy Senor Choppy is offline
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Default Re: Results of 150 NL SNGs on Party

I wasn't sure how most people calculated ROI, but I realized when people said 30% they meant net/buyin. Didn't mean to compare apples to oranges in my previous post.

I realize 20% is low according to many on 2+2, but I have little NL experience (more theory than anything else), so if others are at 30%, I would feel good at 20% for now.

The reason I play so many tables is more because of the fact that I don't take advantage of playing less. I'm not that observant and I will just end up doing something else at the same time if I'm only playing 2 tables, so I might as well play more since my game won't suffer because of it.
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Old 03-15-2004, 04:48 PM
LikesToLose LikesToLose is offline
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Default Re: Results of 150 NL SNGs on Party

<< The reason I play so many tables is more because of the fact that I don't take advantage of playing less. I'm not that observant and I will just end up doing something else at the same time if I'm only playing 2 tables, so I might as well play more since my game won't suffer because of it. >>

Then how will you become more observant?
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Old 03-15-2004, 10:00 PM
Senor Choppy Senor Choppy is offline
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Default Re: Results of 150 NL SNGs on Party

[ QUOTE ]
Then how will you become more observant?

[/ QUOTE ]

With the opponents on Party, it's nothing I'm too concerned with.
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Old 03-16-2004, 12:07 PM
allenciox allenciox is offline
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Default Re: Results of 150 NL SNGs on Party

It sounds like you are probably playing a winning game, but your ROI after 150 tourneys is only accurate (95% chance) to within about +-26%. (after 100 tourneys it is only accurate to within about +-40%). So you really can only state that your true ROI is somewhere between -3% and 30%.

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Old 03-16-2004, 01:17 PM
Senor Choppy Senor Choppy is offline
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Default Re: Results of 150 NL SNGs on Party

[ QUOTE ]
It sounds like you are probably playing a winning game, but your ROI after 150 tourneys is only accurate (95% chance) to within about +-26%. (after 100 tourneys it is only accurate to within about +-40%). So you really can only state that your true ROI is somewhere between -3% and 30%.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the info.

Would the range be between -6% and +46% though?
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Old 03-16-2004, 05:17 PM
X-Calibre X-Calibre is offline
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Default Re: Results of 150 NL SNGs on Party

to each his own, but i can't see how it is profitable to play 6 tables at once.

Even at party (maybe especially at party) its good to know your opponents. Maybe they are all bad but bad in different ways.

Like one player might be too lose where as another might be too timid. This is a very important distinction in how you should handle this person.
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  #9  
Old 03-16-2004, 05:54 PM
allenciox allenciox is offline
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Default Re: Results of 150 NL SNGs on Party

whoops, I added wrong.

You're estimated ROI here is actually 22.4%, so your true ROI is:

22.4 +- 26%,

so about -3.6% to 48.4%. I meant 50% rather than 30% in my post earlier, I was rounding off a bit.

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Old 03-17-2004, 06:53 PM
Senor Choppy Senor Choppy is offline
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Default Re: Results of 150 NL SNGs on Party

The idea isn't to play optimally, which is obviously not going to happen playing 6 tables, it's to play the number of tables which maximizes your overall hourly rate. If I can make $5 per hour, per table playing 6 at once, but only $7 per hour per table playing 4, I'd make more money playing 6 at once even though I'm not playing my best. I don't have exact numbers for SNGs in particular, but in ring games the added tables are definitely worth it.
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