(55) Calling a turn check-raise all-in with an overpair

Slim Pickens · #1 10-09-2005, 03:17 AM

My stats so far on BB say he's loose-passive. He's seen 35% of flop so far without raising. Other than that, I haven't noticed anything he's done.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

BB (t1365)
UTG (t435)
UTG+1 (t820)
MP1 (t975)
MP2 (t1325)
MP3 (t1330)
CO (t845)
Hero (t910)
SB (t1995)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
6 folds, Hero raises to t90, 1 fold, BB calls t60.

Flop: (t195) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets t55, Hero raises to t200, BB calls t145.

Turn: (t595) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t200, BB raises all-in [t1105], Hero ????

I have 420 left with 1000 in the pot. Do I have any excuse to fold getting 2:1 on the call? I am most likely beat by a flush or set, but those are some nice pot odds.

microbet · #2 10-09-2005, 03:24 AM

Sucks to fold KK when there isn't even an Ace on the board, but fold it you must. I think. Maybe. Probably.

ThrillFactor · #3 10-09-2005, 03:36 AM

Why bet 200 of 620 into a 595 pot on the turn?

I think it's either push or check behind.

Also, you do do realize that you flop raise gave him 3 to 1 to call right? Very borderline for pricing out the draw.

microbet · #4 10-09-2005, 04:32 AM

What he said too.

chadsworth · #5 10-09-2005, 04:46 AM

The fact that he bet into you on the flop looks like hes pumping a draw, or a two pair, Even know he was laid three to one, the fact that he is in 35% of the pots and is pasive is telling me he would make a call here. I think this is a fold, but what do I know.

Hendricks433 · #6 10-09-2005, 04:54 AM

I fold but I also dont make the bet of 200 on the turn. I probally check here but other move is a push for me.

pergesu · #7 10-09-2005, 06:23 AM

bleh

That raise sucks.

I think there are two ways to play this man.

1. Shove the flop. If he's got a queen or a flush draw, he makes a huge mistake by calling.

2. Call the flop. wtf could you possibly have if you call the flop after you raised preflop? AK with As? An overpair? HE DOESN'T HAVE A CLUE and will most likely put you on a whiffed AK. So you play him soft here, soft on the turn (just call or check behind) and stack him on the river. Assuming, of course, that you don't think you're beat.

You made a sweet cash game play on the flop. If he's drawing to a flush and has only 9 outs, he's 4-1 against and is only getting 3-1 on the call. But that sucks for tourneys because little mathematical errors don't benefit you nearly as much in a tourney as it does in a cash game. He only risks his buyin, so who cares if he makes a small mistake?

You don't have time to capitalize on small mistakes. Force your opponents to make HUGE ERRORS for their WHOLE STACK.

So you decide on the flop if the guy will call off his stack with a weaker hand. A queen is a lot more likely than a flush draw, you can't just assume the guy lucked out and flopped a draw. So either shove the flop if he'll call with a Q or TT or something like that, and if not, play him soft and just value call him down.

Taraz · #8 10-10-2005, 04:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
But that sucks for tourneys because little mathematical errors don't benefit you nearly as much in a tourney as it does in a cash game. He only risks his buyin, so who cares if he makes a small mistake?

You don't have time to capitalize on small mistakes. Force your opponents to make HUGE ERRORS for their WHOLE STACK.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really like this concept. I hadn't really thought about tourneys like that before.

mike28 · #9 10-10-2005, 05:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
bleh

That raise sucks.

I think there are two ways to play this man.

1. Shove the flop. If he's got a queen or a flush draw, he makes a huge mistake by calling.

2. Call the flop. wtf could you possibly have if you call the flop after you raised preflop? AK with As? An overpair? HE DOESN'T HAVE A CLUE and will most likely put you on a whiffed AK. So you play him soft here, soft on the turn (just call or check behind) and stack him on the river. Assuming, of course, that you don't think you're beat.

You made a sweet cash game play on the flop. If he's drawing to a flush and has only 9 outs, he's 4-1 against and is only getting 3-1 on the call. But that sucks for tourneys because little mathematical errors don't benefit you nearly as much in a tourney as it does in a cash game. He only risks his buyin, so who cares if he makes a small mistake?

You don't have time to capitalize on small mistakes. Force your opponents to make HUGE ERRORS for their WHOLE STACK.

So you decide on the flop if the guy will call off his stack with a weaker hand. A queen is a lot more likely than a flush draw, you can't just assume the guy lucked out and flopped a draw. So either shove the flop if he'll call with a Q or TT or something like that, and if not, play him soft and just value call him down.

[/ QUOTE ]

no no no

no

1. Shoving this flop is a bad, bad idea. You're only getting called by a set or 2 pair, anyone with half a brain is folding their flush draw or QJ.

2. Calling the flop sucks. You have no idea where you stand in the hand, and you're calling yourself into a possible very bad turn card (Just like this hand!) KK isn't invincible, you def don't want to slow play it, esp on this flop.

As the hand plays out I fold here. Yes it sucks you've only got 400 left but you are drawing very, very slim if not dead.

I play the hand the exact same till the turn. I check behind on the turn and fold to most bets on the river.

patrick dicaprio · #10 10-09-2005, 08:16 AM

quetsion is does he play AQ this way with a flush board. to call here you have to win just about 2 out of three pots. do you think you will? tough to see you winning this one, but sometimes you have to grit your teeth and call. since he cam out betting this could be a clus against this player. is a player you described as passive betting a draw out of position? is he even thinking of position?

tough spot but if my opponent really is a poor player i woudl probably call here but if he is decent or better i have to lay it down and curse myself for doing so.

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