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  #1  
Old 09-19-2005, 03:11 AM
Olback Olback is offline
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Posts: 185
Default $22 Q,Q Help?

What do i do here given all the action in front of me?

#Game No : 2737212218
***** Hand History for Game 2737212218 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:15870434 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Monday, September 19, 01:16:55 EDT 2005
Table Table 13884 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: FishECat ( $775 )
Seat 3: helmuthjr21 ( $745 )
Seat 5: cmadsen791 ( $600 )
Seat 7: evlbvr43 ( $1190 )
Seat 8: PSIchotic ( $745 )
Seat 4: SYDSA ( $775 )
Seat 1: Olback1 ( $770 )
Seat 9: sandj2105 ( $1150 )
Seat 10: mitchko ( $1250 )
Trny:15870434 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Olback1 [ Qh Qc ]
PSIchotic folds.
>You have options at Table 14511 Table!.
sandj2105 folds.
mitchko calls [30].
Olback1 raises [120].
FishECat folds.
helmuthjr21 folds.
SYDSA folds.
cmadsen791 calls [105].
evlbvr43 calls [90].
mitchko calls [90].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jh, 6h, 7c ]
cmadsen791 is all-In [480]
evlbvr43 calls [480].
mitchko calls [480].
Olback ????
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  #2  
Old 09-19-2005, 03:43 AM
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Default Re: $22 Q,Q Help?

With 3 people in front saying they have hands here I'm folding. Good chance that one of them has 2 pair or a set here.
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  #3  
Old 09-19-2005, 03:48 AM
Freudian Freudian is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 24
Default Re: $22 Q,Q Help?

[ QUOTE ]
With 3 people in front saying they have hands here I'm folding. Good chance that one of them has 2 pair or a set here.

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #4  
Old 09-19-2005, 04:02 AM
unreal_nh unreal_nh is offline
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Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 477
Default Re: $22 Q,Q Help?

this is a toughy... i'd hesitate a longggg time before calling here and probably be more inclined to fold. just dont kill yourself when u see a pair of jacks, a str8 draw and a flush draw
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  #5  
Old 09-19-2005, 06:34 AM
Pete H Pete H is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 105
Default Re: $22 Q,Q Help?

I'd fold.

[ QUOTE ]
when u see a pair of jacks, a str8 draw and a flush draw

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a possibility I thought also, but as draws would usually push it's much more likely that the caller(s) have a hand that has you beat.

NP: Trivium - Pillars Of Serpents
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  #6  
Old 09-19-2005, 06:38 AM
Elektrik Elektrik is offline
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 18
Default Re: $22 Q,Q Help?

push [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Yes, I really do expect to be ahead enough here. It is a $22 after all.
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  #7  
Old 09-19-2005, 06:56 AM
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Default Re: $22 Q,Q Help?

Without the Qh I'd fold subject to any tells or table style.

Qh does mean you are semi-insured re h flush. With this many in, I doubt you are ahead, you do not have enough chips left to force anyone out on the turn.

Call and stand up?
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  #8  
Old 09-19-2005, 07:03 AM
ilya ilya is offline
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Party Poker
Posts: 460
Default clear fold, NOT because you figure to be behind on average

I think the prize structure makes this a CLEAR fold. Say you're up against AdJc, 9s8s, and AhTh....this is one of the best-case scenarios, I think. Yet even in this case, you're only 30% to take it down. Yes it is profitable. If your opponents turned up these hands and you were playing a winner-takes-all satellite, you would certainly call. However the 50/30/20 prize structure really changes things. 70% of the time you will be gone from the tournament. Having won this hand, you will need to make the money AT LEAST 73% of the time to break even (and that's if you always get 1st!). You can't possibly hope for more than a 10% ROI if this situation comes up every tournament and you call everytime.
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  #9  
Old 09-19-2005, 07:12 AM
Chris Daddy Cool Chris Daddy Cool is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 401
Default Re: $22 Q,Q Help?

you have to fade too much to survive here. if this were a winner take all table i'd call. but with a lot of poker still left to be played with just 15/30 blinds, i think folding is best here.
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  #10  
Old 09-19-2005, 07:22 AM
Elektrik Elektrik is offline
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Posts: 18
Default Re: clear fold, NOT because you figure to be behind on average

perhaps things have changed, but in my experience AJo, xxh, and 98 is definitely not the best case scenario at a 22.

btw I think this is an easy fold at 100 or 200.

As for the ROI part I think that merits an interesting discussion in itself (that I am in no way prepared or willing to get into), but I think in terms of hourly rate considerations it is more profitable to push here.

Of course, I have absolutely no math to back me up and am going on gut feeling, so I could be dead wrong and have something new to learn.
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