Either Life Exists Elsewhere or The Universe is finite.

[adamstewart]

We are life. We exist. Therefore, the probability that life exists is greater than zero.

In an infinite universe, it is certain that a non-zero probability event will occur (repeatedly).

Therefore, either life exists elsewhere in the universe, or the universe is finite.


... but if the universe is finite, how does it end? And what's on the other side?



As an aside, if one assumes that the universe if infinite, it follows that the probability that I am sitting here this very moment, typing a 2+2 post on my Dell laptop .... again, is greater than zero. Therefore, an identicle "me", an identicle "earth", an identicle society .... must also exist elsewhere (repeatedly).



Adam

[fluxrad]

There are theories out there that the universe is, in fact, finite. I believe the latest one was the soccer-ball theory.

[BZ_Zorro]

In an infinite universe, are there an infinite number of infinite possibilities? Good question.

Here's a thought:

According to this theory, someone, somewhere in the universe would have found or made a tool to destroy everything in the universe, and used it (since every possible version of every possible thing exists). Therefore, because the universe (and us) still exists, the universe either

A) Cannot be infinite
B) Cannot contain every possible variant of every possible scenario.

[Jim T]

[ QUOTE ]
In an infinite universe, are there an infinite number of infinite possibilities? Good question.

Here's a thought:

According to this theory, someone, somewhere in the universe would have found or made a tool to destroy everything in the universe, and used it (since every possible version of every possible thing exists). Therefore, because the universe (and us) still exists, the universe either

A) Cannot be infinite
B) Cannot contain every possible variant of every possible scenario.

[/ QUOTE ]
C) A device capable of destroying the universe is not possible.

[BZ_Zorro]

Exactly, it comes down to an argument of what's possible. It's entirely possible that a universe could exist and be filled with nothing but blank space. Or, there could be an infinite number of infinite universes, and we're the one where life only exists on one planet. Just because the universe is infinite doesn't mean everything that could exist will exist.

Therefore, the original argument is bankrupt.

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
Exactly, it comes down to an argument of what's possible. It's entirely possible that a universe could exist and be filled with nothing but blank space. Or, there could be an infinite number of infinite universes, and we're the one where life only exists on one planet. Just because the universe is infinite doesn't mean everything that could exist will exist.

Therefore, the original argument is bankrupt.

[/ QUOTE ]



Wrong.


We exist. Therefore the probability that life exists is greater than zero.

No one has come up with a 'machine to destroy the universe.' (We know this because the universe still exists, otherwise we wouldn't exist). Therefore, it cannot be stated that the probability of a universe-destroying-machine is greater than zero.

My arguement still stands. Your's does not.


Adam

[maurile]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In an infinite universe, are there an infinite number of infinite possibilities? Good question.

Here's a thought:

According to this theory, someone, somewhere in the universe would have found or made a tool to destroy everything in the universe, and used it (since every possible version of every possible thing exists). Therefore, because the universe (and us) still exists, the universe either

A) Cannot be infinite
B) Cannot contain every possible variant of every possible scenario.

[/ QUOTE ]
C) A device capable of destroying the universe is not possible.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's (B). No need to add a (C).

[grengrad]

[ QUOTE ]

Here's a thought:

According to this theory, someone, somewhere in the universe would have found or made a tool to destroy everything in the universe, and used it (since every possible version of every possible thing exists). Therefore, because the universe (and us) still exists, the universe either


[/ QUOTE ]

The theory is that a NON-ZERO probability will be repeated in an infinite universe. There is nothing to show that the ability to destroy the universe is a non-zero probability.

I have kicked a soccer ball before, so I know that the action of kicking a soccer ball can happen, therefore somewhere else in the universe someone else must have also kicked a soccer ball if it is infact infinite.

Since we can wager with some certainty that the universe has not been destroyed, we can assume that destroying universe is a ZERO probability event or the universe is finite. We cannot be sure which, but it does not prove the universe is finite.

[SeppDeitrich]

There is another possible problem. In mathematics there are various "degrees" of infinity. the most basic, are the integers (-inf, ..., -1,0,1,..., inf). There are also the "real" numbers, which include numbers such as pi, which are infinitely long decimals, and cannot be written as A/B where A and B are both integers.

It turns out cannot enumerate the real numbers, even using an infinite number of integers. Meaning you can remove 1 real number for each integer (-infinity to infinity) and still be left with infinitely many real numbers.

It follows from this that:
1: a certain thing could possibly exist, and
2: there are an infinite number of things that do exist

does not nescessarily imply that this particular thing does exist.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

[ QUOTE ]
There is another possible problem. In mathematics there are various "degrees" of infinity. the most basic, are the integers (-inf, ..., -1,0,1,..., inf). There are also the "real" numbers, which include numbers such as pi, which are infinitely long decimals, and cannot be written as A/B where A and B are both integers.

It turns out cannot enumerate the real numbers, even using an infinite number of integers. Meaning you can remove 1 real number for each integer (-infinity to infinity) and still be left with infinitely many real numbers.

It follows from this that:
1: a certain thing could possibly exist, and
2: there are an infinite number of things that do exist

does not nescessarily imply that this particular thing does exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is exactly what i am saying.