PLO Tournament hand - "Punishing" the big hand

[Avatar of Wine]

I'm just starting to pick up PLO in some spare time, after coming from a hold'em background (rare, huh). I think that I played this hand too much like a HE hand, and without the necessary thought as to any draws/redraws. Opinions are welcome - thanks!

$5 PLO Tournament, about 100 players to start, blinds now 200/400. Stacks are right about tournament average (exact #s may be a little off, due to terrible c-n-p job on hand history).

Hero is CO with [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T
Blinds 200-400

UTG raises to 1000
UTG+1 folds
MP1 folds
MP2 folds
MP3 folds
Hero calls 1000 (?)
Folds around

At this point, the only read on UTG is that he is a solid, albeit timid, player, only raising with big pairs and not with large wraps - again, labeling as 'timid' may be from the HE perspective. I'm worried about Aces, obviously, here.

Flop comes [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4

UTG raises 600 (??)
Hero raises all-in for ~3800
UTG calls all-in for ~3000

Turn comes [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2

River comes [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8


How is this line? Am I working too hard to "punish" the draw here? Even with 'just' aces and the flush draw, he's nearing that magical 13 outs . . . Should I push with top set here? Help!

[SmileyEH]

If he has 13 outs he is still a big dog to your set...I dont have my copy of Ciaffone and Reuben with me bud dont you need something like 18 outs to be favored over a set?

-SmileyEH

[Ezcheeze]

I don't play much PLO but this seems like a clear all in. Sure he might have a good draw against you but so what? At best hes still less than 50 50 vs your set. Most likely you have him crushed though. Looks like you're fearing monsters even for PLO.

-Ezcheeze

[Avatar of Wine]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't play much PLO but this seems like a clear all in. Sure he might have a good draw against you but so what? At best hes still less than 50 50 vs your set. Most likely you have him crushed though. Looks like you're fearing monsters even for PLO.

-Ezcheeze

[/ QUOTE ]


Fair enough - here's how it went down, maybe to stir conversation:

UTG shows down [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7
UTG wins pot with straight, 8 high

--
With the overcards, straight and flush possibilities here, it's even money at best for me. Still a good push? Obviously this is best-case for the (otherwise naked) Aces, but like I said I'm really new at PLO - common? Did I make the mistake, or did he?

[SmileyEH]

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=554091
pokenum -o kd ks js jc - ah ad 6h 7s -- kh 5h 4s
Omaha Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing 4s Kh 5h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ks Js Jc Kd 445 54.27 375 45.73 0 0.00 0.543
7s Ad Ah 6h 375 45.73 445 54.27 0 0.00 0.457

Fact is even if you are a small dog which is nigh impossible, the pot has grown too large for you to consider folding giving your hand.

Pushing is absolutely correct.

-SmileyEH

[crockpot]

what's not important is that there is a possible hand out there he can have that's a favorite over yours. what IS important is that you are a favorite over 99% of the hands he will hold here, a massive favorite over many of them, and you should push your edge.

you should play PLO somewhat cautiously, but don't always fear that your opponent has the exact hand you wish he didn't. you will get killed if you do, because you won't win enough on your big hands.

[jomatty]

The preflop call may be a little loose but the flop is a hand you can play aggressively. There are times when you may want to take off a safe card before commiting but heads up in this situation is not the time. Also if he has 13 outs and there is no more money left to bet you have the best of it. He needs impied odds to skew the math in his favor
matty