Do you believe the shuffle is really random online???

[NiceCatch]

Pretend that it's actually William Shatner's Captain Kirk speaking TheRedMan's text... totally hilarious!

[FredJones888]

If playing on party is so great why did he move to vegas ?

[Sunshine]

Try using a different machine and see if your results vary...haven't heard of any spy-ware targeting on-line play, but would imagine it's out there.

[Jordan Olsommer]

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What would stop a poker site from creating it's own 'bots' that succeed in a 'just under the radar but better than average' amount?

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The same thing that would stop a person with a picture-perfect counterfeiting machine from trying to print a 101-dollar bill.

[danzasmack]

i think this would all depend on how the RNG on pp works. I've taken some computer programming and learned that being 100% random is very difficult, i'm not even sure if it is possible.

However, this fact is most likely irrelevant simply because determining the "pattern" - if it does exist - would involve watching a vast amount of tables, because it is likely that each table doesn't have it's own RNG, it's more likely and instance of a class module. Plus party could just at random decide to "burn" a card in between at random, iow, not have a burn card sometimes. All in all, I think that it is next to impossible to cheat to the point that an opponent can call down 95% of the time as an underdog and win consistently. And of all the sites to do it on, party is the least likely.

[bptuneman]

I have played for several years online at a few sites and have clearly run into other people playing in collusion with each other, as it is simple to do, but the sites themselves, at least pkrstrs and trupkr seem to be ok in my opinion - i also log everything i do. But it is a strong case you make. Glad you already made alot of dough though , at least thats a plus. I would definately change to another site or open another accoutn in your wifs name, something like that and check the results.

[Jordan Olsommer]

[ QUOTE ]
I have played for several years online at a few sites and have clearly run into other people playing in collusion with each other, as it is simple to do, but the sites themselves, at least pkrstrs and trupkr seem to be ok in my opinion - i also log everything i do. But it is a strong case you make. Glad you already made alot of dough though , at least thats a plus. I would definately change to another site or open another accoutn in your wifs name, something like that and check the results.

[/ QUOTE ]

People often don't realize something:

It is easier to collude in live games than it is online.

Sure, the actual colluding is much easier online - just sit at the same table as your friend and call him up (although I must be frank when I say that it seems to me that most of the people who would resort to collusion probably wouldn't know how the hell to use the data they gain by colluding in any but the most infinitessimally +EV manner over the long run) - in a live game, you have to set up some kind of set of signals (I imagine this is not at all hard to do, however).

But the important part is, when you engage in collusion in a brick-and-mortar card room, as soon as the dealer scrambles the deck for the next deal, almost all the evidence of your crime has been wiped away. All that's left to trace back to your having done something illegal is if you showed down a hand (in which case people still have to be attentive enough to realize that this player is making more than his fair share of really good calls), or if someone is interested enough to look at the security cameras to see if someone's stacking their chips in a suspicious way or making strange gestures.

Online, your entire hand history is known. If you suspect collusion, the system administrators can go back and see table records ("wow these guys are always at the same table together and they never seem to get involved in a big pot with only each other...hmm"), they can see individual hands ("why did he call this huge bet for all his on the end here with a singleton king[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and four hearts on board? Ohhh, because his trusty sidekick Robin over here folded the ace of hearts.")

If you're going to collude, do it in a brick-and-mortar casino; there's much less of a chance of getting caught in my opinion. On an online casino, you could have colluded five years ago, but the trail you leave still exists on their backup tapes today.

[a1doug182]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What would stop a poker site from creating it's own 'bots' that succeed in a 'just under the radar but better than average' amount?

[/ QUOTE ]

The same thing that would stop a person with a picture-perfect counterfeiting machine from trying to print a 101-dollar bill.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. A 101 bill would not slide under the radar.

[Jordan Olsommer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What would stop a poker site from creating it's own 'bots' that succeed in a 'just under the radar but better than average' amount?

[/ QUOTE ]

The same thing that would stop a person with a picture-perfect counterfeiting machine from trying to print a 101-dollar bill.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. A 101 bill would not slide under the radar.

[/ QUOTE ]

You missed the point of that analogy - I was comparing the managers of an online poker site, a veritable cash cow, who decide to milk a teeny tiny bit more money out of it by having bots play on their site with a counterfeiter who is able to print as much money as he wants trying to milk a teeny tiny bit extra out of each printing. In both cases, the extra effort makes no sense whatsoever.

[Charlie J]

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They would draw to the worst hands at times, but ONLY when they were going to hit. a tight game the rest of the time.

You would expect someone who draws to just a running straight or flush in a small pot to be chasing cards all the time. But these players ONLY do it when they hit.


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1-How in the hell do you know they only do it "when they know they are going to hit"? Have you seen the other hundreds of mucked hands in which they have lost to you while attempting to hit. I mean after all, all of those times they did not hit helped you accumulate your six figure earning last year.
2-Maybe they are folding hands that aren't giving them good pot odds or "implied odds" and attempting their draws on the hands that have the most outs and best chances of coming.

[ QUOTE ]

Also it seems that if they call the turn they will win the pot about 95% of the time. I am assuming the other 5% is just for show, or with hands that would just look too suspicious to support if they found out you folded. obivious that something was wrong.


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have statistical proof that 95% of the time they are winning when they call the turn? Because if you do, that still seems a bit too obvious and you would think support/collusion control would pick up on it.

To me, and I am not intending to sound like a douche but I am sure thats how it will sound. To me, it seems like you are another conspiracy theorist thinking the world is out to get you. If you did earn six figures last year, good for you. You had an excellent run and I am sure your game will get back soon. Every EVERY poker player has dry spells where the cards don't come, hands arent coming as often, and the bad beats won't stop, but such is poker.

But overall, its been said much already. These sites have nothing to gain from cheating. The rake they make from ring games, sit n goes and multi table tourneys is out of control as it.

Finally, look at people like Gank, BRSavage, JohnnyBaxx, just to name a few. Why does those guys consistently dominate and stay on top of the rankings? Do these conspirers leave them as exceptions just because they are known through the poker world, online and off? I myself can not say I am good enough to compete with the above mentioned names, but I will however say I am not losing player. Ill break even for a year or be up, but if a loss is taken it won't be painful to the roll. I won't lie, I will whine about the donks from time to time, but as far as this whole being rigged thing. Def not.