HOH II Problem 9-3 (p 177)

[La Brujita]

Briefly you are UTG+1 with Q6o and M under two. You are still away from money. Edit to say nine person table, you have 4600 and blinds are 600-1200 75 ante.

He advocates a push for a few basic reasons:

1. Any A, K Q or medium cards is enough to go all in.

2. He is interested in in being the first to enter the pot.

I didn't think this was the right play for a couple of reasons:

1. You have a barely above average hand maybe 51-58% hand.

2. You have one free shot to pick up a hand if you fold and point two above holds by definition.

3. If worst comes to worst you have a chance to pick up a hand in the BB and you might be lucky enough to be heads up against one player.

I don't think going all in is awful, I just think waiting is a little better.

Thoughts? Sorry if this hand has been discussed.

[Exitonly]

in tpfap sklansky writes about a situation like this and says to fold, that you need beter than just an average hand. If i stop being lazy later i'll go and find a quote w/ some math in it.

I think i like a push here though.

[FreakDaddy]

There are some other factors that play into a push here, but for the most part I like it. It's especially effective if you haven't been going haywire and have a fairly tight pre-flop image. If there's a BB or SB who has a sominate chip lead and doesn't mind gambling, then I'd second guess pushing so early in here.

[M.B.E.]

With that short a stack and seven players behind you, you'll usually get called in at least one spot when you push. In general you'd have a 20% probability of stealing the blinds, I'd estimate, maybe less.

I think you need to fold the Q6o, though I'd push 98s as it won't be as much of an underdog against the range of hands that will call you.

[pfkaok]

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in tpfap sklansky writes about a situation like this and says to fold, that you need beter than just an average hand. If i stop being lazy later i'll go and find a quote w/ some math in it.

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Well, the math he does in there though, i believe is for when you are VERY short (like under 2 BBs), and have zero FE. Here, with about 4 BB, you at least have some chance of taking it down. even if its only 20-30% here, thats still pretty significant.

I don't mind the push although for me it would depend on the other stacks. If I have one or two of the really big stacks behind me then I would fold a hand this marginal. If they're thinking players they could see me making a desperate move to pick up some chips before the blinds take me down to 2BB and call me with Kx or Ax (I would do the same thing in their place).

Any other time I like the pushhhhhh

I completely agree with Harrington, and have been practicing this diligently lately and the "first in vigourish" is HUGE IMHO. You have very little FE, but sometimes it is enough and when you do get called, you may get lucky or even get called with suited connectors or random hand lower than Q.

[M.B.E.]

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I completely agree with Harrington, and have been practicing this diligently lately and the "first in vigourish" is HUGE IMHO. You have very little FE, but sometimes it is enough and when you do get called, you may get lucky or even get called with suited connectors or random hand lower than Q.

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That doesn't make sense to me; you say the first-in vig is "HUGE" but we have very little FE. Isn't FE the whole point of first-in vig?

Why not wait til next hand? We'll be UTG so still have the first-in vig. And we'll probably be dealt a better pushing hand than Q6o.

[La Brujita]

I remember this passage and one thing I am confused about is does the fact you have a few more chips make it more reasonable to push, less reasonable to push, or make no difference.

I am not sure but I think you will basically play any two in the big blind (if my math is right you will only need high twenties ev) but the more chips should give you a bit more leeway in some sense right?

If players know you are likely to call any all in, your few more chips might make it a tiny bit less likely they will push. Probably very marginal, and anwyays I suck at these situations.

I avoid them by generally donking out early on big bluffs doomed to fail.

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I completely agree with Harrington, and have been practicing this diligently lately and the "first in vigourish" is HUGE IMHO. You have very little FE, but sometimes it is enough and when you do get called, you may get lucky or even get called with suited connectors or random hand lower than Q.

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That doesn't make sense to me; you say the first-in vig is "HUGE" but we have very little FE. Isn't FE the whole point of first-in vig?

Why not wait til next hand? We'll be UTG so still have the first-in vig. And we'll probably be dealt a better pushing hand than Q6o.

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First of all I said first in vig is HUGE (in general), secondly first in vig is not JUST about FE but also "showdown value".