Feeling Misanthropic

[Blarg]

I didn't say they're not doing good. At least in any kind of definitive way. Far from it. But the post I was responding to was talking more about being good than doing good.

I'm sure plenty of serial killers do lots of good things too, some perhaps many more than people we would easily consider much more "good." I think you can do plenty of good things without being particularly good at all. And also that many of the things people like to count as "good" are really just self-serving.

I'm also thinking that the people who go notably out of their way in a way that isn't directly or indirectly beneficial to them is fairly small, and I also think criminality is fairly big. Look at how many people are in gangs, even with their whole families and virtually whole neighborhoods, and multi-generationally, and how many are in prisons for not just victimless crimes like owning some pot or crack, but violent and otherwise more serious ones. And these are just our most extreme, out of control cases. And there are literally many millions of them.

What about the smaller things that provide less extreme counterparts? Is a parent taking the blame for their kid's behavior more common than blaming someone else? Is cutting people off in traffic or refusing to let them in your lane so they can get off the freeway uncommon in the slightest? Is it more common to use turn signals or not use them? (In L.A., people virtually NEVER use them. And they never use them by the millions, all day long.) What about the people who create mean spirited or vicious gossip, or at least approve of and encourage it by default by partaking in it and laughing at it, as opposed to those who say, why don't you knock that crap off? or just walk away or change the subject?

I'm not putting any particular relative values on any of these things, but they just show the human spirit and natural impulses and reactions. We're a warlike, brutal, selfish animal -- like many animals when they get the chance, but unlike some other ones too. Sometimes our morals or spirit or whatever may ascend a few rungs of the ladder, but it's always an ascension. Our natural morality and instincts are at the bottom of the ladder, not the top.

Many people go out of their way to do the wrong thing, even terrible things. I think the number who contribute to charities, man soup kitchens, or just do good things for other people in general in ways it really takes anything notable out of them and doesn't benefit them are fairly few. And put under even the hint or suspicion of pressure, I think it's fairly rare that people take a stand or do the right thing unless it comes at very little or no conceivable cost to themselves.

I don't think democracy or any kind of concern for others is inherent or particularly natural. It's both learned, and unlikely. There's a reason why no other country approaches America's bill of rights, and why any kind of meaningful democracy has taken so long to set up in most countries in the world still to this day, no matter what the circumstances of a country. And when people see the results of war and talk about it and say why why why? for the billionth time about the millionth war -- the answer is simple. We LIKE it. Absolutely. It's our nature.

[wacki]

I understand your point. I also think I have a little more faith in the human race than you do. I will discuss later. I have projects to work on. It looks like this is going to be a difficult debate.

As of right now I still believe that most people are good. Be it either from natural good nature, discipline, wisdom, or fear of pain. The effect in most cases is similar. I also believe that people are in general weak and lazy unless motivated by an outside force, then they can be strong an diligent. All of these factors will make you cherish the human gems that much more. Like attracts like and if you are a good person you will find more people like yourself.

I also do not belittle good acts because they are not totally unselfish. If I had a choice between doing a completely nonselfish act and a nonselfish act that was rewarding in someway it would be foolish not to pick the rewarding act. The rewards would encourage you to continue doing good.

More in a few days... have work to do..... 2+2 is addictive [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]