My opponents are much worse than I ever realized

#1 08-21-2005, 10:24 AM

I decided to mess around with the Playback Hand feature of pokertracker. What I did was to load up hands (from the partypoker .50/1.00 tables) in which I won, play them back, but from the perspective of the other players in the hand. I put a postit note over the screen where my cards would be, so as I was playing the hand, I didn't know what his(my) cards were(if my memory for old hands were better, I guess I couldn't do this). I picked one of the hands which made it to the showdown (easy to figure out) and played the hand from the beginning as if I were this player.

I actually was planning on doing this for the purpose of seeing how my play came across to other players. What I discovered instead was that my opponents are far worse than I ever realized. Their play was just ridiculous much of the time.

Pocket 2's from UTG? Raise! 85 offsuit against a raise? Call. The same 85 offsuit after A K 5 comes up on the flop? Call every bet down to a showdown.

Then there's always, KQ, with a flop of KQ3. Check, then call the flop, turn, and river. Or the guy with pocket kings, who had a full house, kings over queens by the turn, and merely called my turn and river bets but didn't raise.

Maybe 20% of the other players who went to a showdown against me in the hands I won actually played in a reasonable manner. I always knew they were bad, but seeing it from their perspective brought it home just how appallingly bad they really are.

There are only 3 possible choices in limit holdem, raise, call, and fold. I'm not sure the average player was even making the correct choice 1/3 of the time. I think they'd have done better closing their eyes and clicking at random.

If you're playing very low limit tables and want to feel better about your play, try this yourself, you'll wonder how you ever have a losing streak.

Bradyams · #2 08-21-2005, 10:38 AM

The sad part is these donks take my money all the time [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Cosimo · #3 08-21-2005, 06:02 PM

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The sad part is these donks take my money all the time [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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Rake is about 2BB/100h. If you're losing at a rate less than 2BB/100, you're beating the other guys but not by enough to also beat the house.

I'm breakeven for the last 20k hands. That means I'm a 2BB/100h winner over the competition, where 7 or more BB is possible.

Just a little bit more, and I'll be back to taking money out of this game.

bottomset · #4 08-21-2005, 08:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The sad part is these donks take my money all the time [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Rake is about 2BB/100h. If you're losing at a rate less than 2BB/100, you're beating the other guys but not by enough to also beat the house.

I'm breakeven for the last 20k hands. That means I'm a 2BB/100h winner over the competition, where 7 or more BB is possible.

Just a little bit more, and I'll be back to taking money out of this game.

[/ QUOTE ]

you play 5/10?? I play 3/6 and its around 2.5bb/100, its about 4/100 at the micro levels

Buccaneer · #5 08-21-2005, 10:47 PM

Does the replayer reveal the other players cards if you do what you did?

bottomset · #6 08-21-2005, 10:55 PM

I had someone overcall Qhigh today

Webster · #7 08-21-2005, 11:09 PM

At Party Rake FOR ME is

2.20BB/100 in 1/2
2.02BB/100 in 2/4
1.67BB/100 in 3/6

For what it's worth

Grinderswarehouse - NOT just another BLOG

#8 08-21-2005, 11:28 PM

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Does the replayer reveal the other players cards if you do what you did?

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Yes, if you want it to. You can click on any other player's cards at any point in replaying the hand, if that player went to a showdown so their cards were known, and see them. So if you want to replay from their perspective, you can cover your cards and show theirs.

bottomset · #9 08-21-2005, 11:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
At Party Rake FOR ME is

2.20BB/100 in 1/2
2.02BB/100 in 2/4
1.67BB/100 in 3/6

For what it's worth

Grinderswarehouse - NOT just another BLOG

[/ QUOTE ]

god I pay a lot of rake at 6max .. I'm sad now

TomBrooks · #10 08-22-2005, 01:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
At Party Rake FOR ME is 2.20BB/100 in 1/2
Grinderswarehouse - NOT just another BLOG

[/ QUOTE ]
My 1/2 rake is 3.3 BB/100 before rakeback. I have to figure out how much that reduces it. Supposed to be 25%, which would make it 2.5 BB/100. That would still be a little higher than yours. I wonder why that is, and are you counting rakeback?

PS: Nice blog.