Gigabet making me consider mucking AK?!

pergesu · #1 05-17-2005, 06:32 PM

Third hand in, no reads at all. Who here is pushing preflop? Anyone fold to the preflop reraise or on the flop?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

CO (t770)
Button (t835)
SB (t785)
BB (t800)
UTG (t785)
UTG+1 (t800)
UTG+2 (t890)
MP1 (t875)
MP2 (t690)
Hero (t770)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 raises to t50, Hero raises to t150, 4 folds, MP2 raises to t300, Hero calls t150.

Flop: (t622.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villain bets t390 (all-in). Hero calls t390.

Turn: (t1012.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t1012.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t1012.50

DasLeben · #2 05-17-2005, 06:35 PM

Well, this early in the tourney I like to call the preflop raise and see a flop with AK. If you miss, you're still in good shape.

The Yugoslavian · #3 05-17-2005, 06:36 PM

You just put Gigabet in the title of this so I'd read it and then feel a burning desire to beat small cute kittens and puppies into a bloody pulpy heap of death, didn't you?

Yugoslav
How'd I do citanul?

pergesu · #4 05-17-2005, 06:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How'd I do citanul?

[/ QUOTE ]

No good, I'm afraid.

Do you push preflop here?

The Yugoslavian · #5 05-17-2005, 07:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How'd I do citanul?

[/ QUOTE ]

No good, I'm afraid.

Do you push preflop here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I call preflop.

Yugoslav

Blarg · #6 05-17-2005, 07:06 PM

I'm calling the 50 and hoping for a chance to make an isolation raise against the original preflop raiser on the flop if I hit and the board is scary(to chase out draws right away), or wait till the turn to do the isolation raise/all-in if the board is very mild looking, to eke more money out of the bettor/callers. I value my position behind the original raiser and the somewhat hidden nature of my hand here more than the actual strength of my hand, which is somewhat of an open question, especially with so many people behind yet to act.

AKo is a hand that either makes or loses a lot of money, and I think it's worth trying to set a trap with it or abandon it quickly without much investment. I simply fold if I miss the flop. So instead of either making or losing a lot of money, I either make a lot(maybe even more) or lose a little. There's still plenty of time to make money post-flop with AK.

I understand the isolation raise/value raise in early position preflop idea, but I like it better when my raise is the first one or I have better position. I don't like a big investment in a no-pair hand that may well have some of its outs already in the hand I'm raising and a big field of callers who can reraise before the action closes, also possibly holding some of my outs. Especially this early in the tourney, I think there are better ways to spend your money than on a raise here.

I realize I'll probably be shredded for this.

Nick M · #7 05-17-2005, 07:14 PM

nope I agree. I wouldn't re-raise here. Lets take a flop and maybe I can trap him. If I don't hit it's muck.

pergesu · #8 05-17-2005, 07:23 PM

Just calling here invites little pairs to join in. All of a sudden, the trap I set (if I hit) could easily end up breaking me. A lot of people are calling t50 in the first round.

Doesn't a raise here help to define my hand, and when he pops me back give me some idea of where I am? His initial raise could be a lot of hands, but when he reraises me, it narrows them down quite a bit.

How about on the flop? I think AA and QQ are out - no way he'd push in there. QQ is more likely than AA, obviously because I have an A, but also because no AA is pushing, but QQ might to try to get a call if I have an ace. I'd think the most likely hands here are AK, KK, and AQ.

Phoenix1010 · #9 05-17-2005, 07:29 PM

This has very little to do with Gigabet.

As others have said, I like calling preflop so I can get away from a poor flop with minimal investment, or perhaps take the pot away the 10% of the time that he'll check the flop. The downside is that you'll often allow other players into the pot behind you, but if you're not planning on getting involved unless you hit TPTK, that doesn't matter too much.

Reraising is fine, because you'll have the best hand most of the time. But if you get 3 bet for almost half your stack, why are you just flat calling preflop? Are you planning to fold if you miss the flop and he pushes like he's going to do no matter what falls? Push or fold after you get repopped, don't flat call. If you're gonna play, you have to think your A or K will be good if you hit, so you want to see all five cards. If you don't think your A or K will be good, get out of there.

-Phoenix

Big Limpin' · #10 05-17-2005, 08:45 PM

on the 2nd time around...why just call? he has t390 left for a t600 pot. Would you call his inevitable push on any flop? I;d just get it allin p/f to see all 5 board cards.