2 Hands Not Yet Simple To ME - Page 2

pshabi · #11 10-16-2005, 01:49 PM

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Sorry No reads, yes I am a beginner, I run acrros these types of situations a lot. In the first hand I am wondering is should I have smooth called the flop in order to get more bets in? In the second hand I was questioning my flop play as well as my agg thoughout the hand. Should I have been more worried about the flush? Should I ahve c/r the flop, r/r the river? Last ? as this is my first hand post how did I do?

Maybe as a bonus you could commit on how different reads my affect the play here. Thanks in advance for any and all comments.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 6.16 BB

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP folds, CO folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, BB folds, UTG folds, Button calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

River: (11 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB

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I play hand one the same, everytime. Don't expect to many people to do what UTG just did there. Like, ever.

Hand two:

In this situation, I don't think I would 3-bet the flop. Let the other guys put some bets in drawing dead.

pshabi · #12 10-16-2005, 01:55 PM

After reviewing the thread:

The optimal play on hand one is borderline. I see positive in raising and calling. Reads help here. I still lean towards a raise but's it's like 55/45.

I still like a call on the flop and yes, donk the turn and squeeze them for one more. If he raises the turn, call. Bet/call the river club.

Nietzsche · #13 10-16-2005, 03:05 PM

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If he raises the turn, call. Bet/call the river club.

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I don't see how this line is superior to 3-betting the turn.

Guy McSucker · #14 10-16-2005, 03:18 PM

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I play hand one the same, everytime. Don't expect to many people to do what UTG just did there. Like, ever.

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I see people doing this to me all the time. I raise preflop, some big card flops, they lead out to see if I have one of those or not. I am getting folds to my raises quite often at $5/10 and have taken to calling these donks more often than not.

This also makes me feel less of a weakie when I just call a flop donkbet with overcards or a draw, since if they're paying attention they have to be at least slightly afraid I have something when I call.

The part about paying attention is the fallacy here.

Guy.

sations · #15 10-16-2005, 10:50 PM

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Hand two:

In this situation, I don't think I would 3-bet the flop. Let the other guys put some bets in drawing dead.

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I guess imo I was hoping to force any draws to pay 2 more bets to chase. Maybe not so good? And if I do get capped I am mostly likely up against the A Club or made flush right.

VBM · #16 10-17-2005, 12:04 AM

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Will he fold AA on the river if you cap every street? Raise and submit hand as an article to the 2+2 Internet Magazine.

/mc

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LOL

spydog · #17 10-17-2005, 07:34 AM

Hand 1: Easy flop call. If he has Ax then he will bet the turn and you gain an extra SB. Plus you might gain another SB if BB decides to peel. If he is bluffing then he might bluff again on the turn, gaining you an extra BB. If he has 7x/4x/PP then a flop call will make the hand very difficult for him to play. He might check the turn, fearing a raise, but still call your bet on the turn and river. Raising this flop gets the minimum out of Ax and will fold hands that you want him to continue with.

Hand 2: I think I would call the flop raise and donk/3-bet the turn. 3-betting the flop is OK, too. The rest is fine.

#18 10-17-2005, 09:51 AM

In hand 2 I agree with the above posters about a flop call and turn don,k but I think that either way the turn should be a very easy 3-bet.

Monty Cantsin · #19 10-17-2005, 12:47 PM

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Hand 1: Easy flop call. If he has Ax then he will bet the turn and you gain an extra SB.

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Or lose one if he would have called the raise and donked the turn anyway or 3-bet the flop.

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Plus you might gain another SB if BB decides to peel.

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Or lose one if he would have called two with the same hand.

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If he has 7x/4x...

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He raised UTG.

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Raising this flop gets the minimum out of Ax and will fold hands that you want him to continue with.

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Lots of times against many players with a worse A raising the flop will get you as much money when they jam the flop, mistake your flop raise for weakness, or bet out again on a non-spade turn. Waiting for the turn to raise is a fine play but not obviously better.

Every once in a while one of these players has AJ and the other has KJ spades, or one's going to have a spade draw and the other will decide to run a giant bluff. Or some other scenario in which the flop gets capped 3 ways. Yes, these are rare but one or two big money outliers like this tip the choice to balanced for me.

This is apart from any tempo/metagame factors, which will often favor fastplaying the flop.

In my opinion the decision remains close.

/mc