Is this how you do a screwplay?

Spicymoose · #1 12-04-2005, 06:50 PM

No reads. I am getting a bit obsessed with figuring out what the screwplay means when my villains do it, and trying to do it myself in the right situations.

Good?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $10.
2 folds, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, CO calls.

Flop: (5 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises, CO folds.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

bank · #2 12-04-2005, 07:02 PM

I don't think this is the right situation for a screwplay. I would lead the turn. Any read on Villian?

Lmn55d · #3 12-04-2005, 07:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am getting a bit obsessed with figuring out what the screwplay means when my villains do it, and trying to do it myself in the right situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if you never screwplayed at 10/20 you wouldn't be missing much value at all.

Here I would bet to get value from all the people who peel incorrectly but wouldn't bet when checked to. I also don't give these same people a free card.

I'm also calling down if raised so inducing some bluff raises is fine too. I like check-calling better than checkraising because when he calls your checkraise i dont think you're in that good of shape and check/calling the river after check/calling the turn often induces two bluffs.

But yea I bet.

TStoneMBD · #4 12-04-2005, 07:31 PM

against semi-thinking opponents you should be making screwplays on boards that make it look like you gave up with the hand. on this board your turn check just looks like you want to get to showdown and plan on checkcalling. youre not checking queen high here so theres no reason for an opponent to take a stab at it. of course some players cant resist but anyone with a brain should be checking unless he was going to call a river bet after you check the turn and figures this costs him the same amount to find out if his hand is good or not.

checkraising the turn doesnt serve any purpose over a bet. you end up losing more money when he actually has a pair but in most cases youre of course ahead. by betting the turn you gain the same equity as when you checkraise and he folds. the only advantage of checkraising him off a hand is that he folds a potential 6 outter. in alot of cases he just checks the turn altogether and you dont gain any value at all.

screwplaying ace high really doesnt make sense. you screwplay strong hands and worthless hands but not mediocre hands unless they can fold a better one. in this case it cannot.

a good place for a screw play is as follows:

tight player opens in EP and you call in the BB with Arag. flop comes some rags and you want to take your ace to showdown. you either donkbet or you checkraise and he calls. you then check the turn, he bets and you screwplay checkraise because your checkraise now gives him a chance to fold a better ace. if he calls you check the river and fold to his bet.

NLSoldier · #5 12-05-2005, 12:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]

a good place for a screw play is as follows:

tight player opens in EP and you call in the BB with Arag. flop comes some rags and you want to take your ace to showdown. you either donkbet or you checkraise and he calls. you then check the turn, he bets and you screwplay checkraise because your checkraise now gives him a chance to fold a better ace. if he calls you check the river and fold to his bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think thats an awful place for a screwplay.

I dont remember the last time i screwplayed as a bluff. People do not fold to them unless they are bluffing too.

#6 12-05-2005, 01:23 AM

Tstone - Should people be calling EP raises with ace-rag in the BB ?

TStoneMBD · #7 12-05-2005, 01:42 AM

sorry i didnt mean to imply that screwplays should be done as bluffs. i was trying to point out a hand in which a screwplay with ace high makes sense but it rarely does, and even tho this isnt the best example it has the correct fundamentals. checkraising the turn and checkfolding is better than cc cc in alot of situations because it has folding equity. i remember coming across some screwplay hands similar to this in the recent past on twoplustwo and i agreed with them. in general though i agree with you screwplays shouldnt be done as bluffs.

TheMetetron · #8 12-05-2005, 01:57 AM

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I dont remember the last time i screwplayed as a bluff. People do not fold to them unless they are bluffing too.

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I do [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

NLSoldier · #9 12-05-2005, 02:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
sorry i didnt mean to imply that screwplays should be done as bluffs. i was trying to point out a hand in which a screwplay with ace high makes sense but it rarely does, and even tho this isnt the best example it has the correct fundamentals. checkraising the turn and checkfolding is better than cc cc in alot of situations because it has folding equity. i remember coming across some screwplay hands similar to this in the recent past on twoplustwo and i agreed with them. in general though i agree with you screwplays shouldnt be done as bluffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

crap. i misread your post and thought you said the flop comes ace-rag-rag. and that you thought you were getting a better ace to fold. now it makes more sense.