Interesting hand with AK

GrekeHaus · #1 10-31-2004, 12:06 AM

Here, I'm sitting in the big blind. normally I'd raise here, but with all those people already in and me out of position, I decided just to call. I was wondering what other people would do in this situation.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 3 folds, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, MP3 3-bets, SB folds, Hero ???

GrekeHaus · #2 10-31-2004, 12:07 AM

btw...no reads on any of the players.

Haupt_234 · #3 10-31-2004, 12:08 AM

3-bet preflop, cap the flop.

Haupt_234

GrekeHaus · #4 10-31-2004, 12:14 AM

Alright, first I'm not not really concerned about my preflop actions here. Usually I'll three bet, but when you're in the blinds with a few people already in, it's often acceptable just to call. I'm not really concerned about that part.

Second, when you say cap the flop, without any justification, it offers no insight whatsoever.

Haupt_234 · #5 10-31-2004, 12:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Alright, first I'm not not really concerned about my preflop actions here. Usually I'll three bet, but when you're in the blinds with a few people already in, it's often acceptable just to call. I'm not really concerned about that part.

[/ QUOTE ]

You will be losing a great deal of equity in the long run when you don't raise in this position. And it doesn't seem like this is the only situation where you check through, but I won't put too much emphasis on it since you have no concern.

[ QUOTE ]
Second, when you say cap the flop, without any justification, it offers no insight whatsoever.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would cap the flop here since UTG could be raising AJ, AQ, AK, JJ, QQ or KK. Maybe even TT. The raise from MP3 doesn't neccessarily mean a set or two-pair, but a decent ace such as AT or AJ. This hand would help out a great deal with some reads, and the decision between raising and, I guess calling, is marginal. But my aggressive tendency would be to reraise.

Haupt_234

DesertCat · #6 10-31-2004, 12:29 AM

I'm concerned about your pre-flop. If you had three bet, whether the raiser four bets or not can help you narrow down his hand. Secondly, you've got a premium hand, and every bet you make the fishies toss in pre-flop increases your profitability.

And if you had been four bet preflop, you might not have wasted a bet on the flop (unless he's just a maniac). You tried to stop and start preflop/flop and no-one gave you any credit for a hand. You can't just turn aggression off and on and expect it to be respected. If you had three bet, and the raiser just called, they might just call your flop raise.

But to answer your questipn, your flop read is player dependent. If they are reasonably okay players you are looking at two pair. If they are maniacs, anything.

GrekeHaus · #7 10-31-2004, 12:37 AM

It is a bit weak to call preflop, I admit.

When I led out with a bet from the BB, I was expecting a raise from the preflop raiser. At this point, I had to figure I had him beat (or possibly tied if he also had AK). His raise here would also indicate he had a big ace. Then, I figured his raise would gain respect from the rest of the table. I wasn't expecting anybody to respect me, but I was expecting people to respect his raise so that then I could get heads up.

The big question for me was what the late position caller could have in this situation that he could possibly three bet on the flop.

Michael Davis · #8 10-31-2004, 12:40 AM

It's okay to call preflop but you should bet every flop then.

-Michael

BigBaitsim (milo) · #9 10-31-2004, 02:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Alright, first I'm not not really concerned about my preflop actions here. Usually I'll three bet, but when you're in the blinds with a few people already in, it's often acceptable just to call. I'm not really concerned about that part.

Second, when you say cap the flop, without any justification, it offers no insight whatsoever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright, you are wrong here. You are losing money by not three-betting this pre-flop.

You should raise on the flop because there is a good chance you have the best hand.

GrekeHaus · #10 10-31-2004, 02:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Alright, you are wrong here. You are losing money by not three-betting this pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

While it's true that I likely have the best hand preflop, I'm out of position here. 2/3 times you'll miss the flop with AK, and I'm out of position. Even if I'm best on the flop (without improving), it can be very difficult to play this hand with 3 other people in the pot. On the other hand, if I keep the pot small, it's easier for me to get away from it if the flop misses me. Thus, I may lose bets preflop, but I might gain them later by making fewer (or less serious mistakes). It is clearly not optimal, but not terrible either. In this case, it ended up saving me a bet since I would have folded on the flop in either situation.

Many experts would agree with me here. For instance, Matthew Hilger recomends just calling in this situation in his Internet Texas Hold 'em book.