Besides Razz, is O8 the most luck-driven game out there?

[CinnamonWind]

Cripes, I am trying to learn O8 right now, playing some low buyin SnGs, and it's just a chip spewing fest that feels more like a lottery than poker. Even playing nice and tight doesn't help a bit, it seems. Just crazy hand after crazy hand, with no idea what anyone is holding and no idea why they're betting, ever.

I'm beginning to wonder if the game is even worth it to learn, frankly ...

[deacsoft]

I'm very new to Omaha but I do seem to get rivered in every hand I play. I'm not actively trying to get good at it or anything. It's just something I'm goofing around with.

[chesspain]

I hate 0H. The only time I play it is in our "casino-choice" home game, where it's included as a sop to one of the guys, who is weak-tight, terrible player who likes it, for some reason.

If you are looking for another game to learn where a good player has a large advantage over poor players, the consensus seems to be that Stud8 is the game.

[Smasharoo]

Cripes, I am trying to learn O8 right now, playing some low buyin SnGs, and it's just a chip spewing fest that feels more like a lottery than poker. Even playing nice and tight doesn't help a bit, it seems.


I'm going to guess that you're still learning it and don't realize how much of a massive gap there is in quality between various O8 starting hands. Loose players get crushed in O8. People who raise with just the nut low get crushed in O8.

There's far, far, less variance playing O8 on a loose table than there is playing Holdem on a loose table.

O8 is harder to learn, but much easier to learn to play very well. O8 on a loose table is a game of waiting for nut hands where you have a good chance of scooping of 3/4ing. It's not a game of tactical betting as much as Holdem is, it's a game of punishing people who are often drawing dead or for 1/4 of the pot.

[chesspain]

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O8 on a loose table is a game of waiting for nut hands where you have a good chance of scooping of 3/4ing.

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Does the phrase "like watching paint dry" adequately describe the correct strategy for playing 0H?

[Smasharoo]

Does the phrase "like watching paint dry" adequately describe the correct strategy for playing 0H?


"Getting paid to watch paint dry" would be better [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I find it boring to play also, but if you're clearing a bonus it's a good game because the fluctuations are much, much less severe than Holdem.

The original post was about it being luck driven, and it's clearly less luck driven than Holdem, particularly PL O8. I'm constantly amazed that bad players even contiue to play PL O8.

All that said, Stud8 is proabably even worse for them so the O8 games tend to be livleier.

[Iceman]

[ QUOTE ]
Cripes, I am trying to learn O8 right now, playing some low buyin SnGs, and it's just a chip spewing fest that feels more like a lottery than poker. Even playing nice and tight doesn't help a bit, it seems. Just crazy hand after crazy hand, with no idea what anyone is holding and no idea why they're betting, ever.

I'm beginning to wonder if the game is even worth it to learn, frankly ...

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Avoid limit Omaha-8 SNGs. The luck factor is just too high. Hands tend to run close in value preflop or in shorthanded pots postflop, so these become a total crapshoot after the first few levels. Limit Omaha-8 ring games are worth playing if the game is very loose, and if that's the case they will be more profitable than holdem or stud. Pot-limit Omaha-8 is a great game against bad players, but not suprisingly very few of them play it.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

No. That award goes to limit Omaha High.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Absolutely. You have to play far fewer hands in O/8 than in HE.

[benfranklin]

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I'm beginning to wonder if the game is even worth it to learn, frankly ...

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Steve Badger has a web site that has a lot of good stuff about poker in general and Omaha in particular.
http://www.playwinningpoker.com/

About luck in Omaha, he says:

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Many players seem to draw the wrong conclusions from the greater certainty that is part of Omaha. They think because their nut flush on the turn gets beaten on the river when the board pairs that Omaha has some mystical randomness to it. The opposite is true. There are a precise number of cards that pair the board, and make you lose. There are a precise number that do not pair the board, and make you win. On the turn, if you have the nut flush, with no cards in your hand paired on the board, and your opponent has a set, with no other cards paired on the board, there are exactly forty possible river cards. Exactly ten pair the board to make you a loser. Exactly thirty do not pair the board and make you the winner. That's it -- pure, simplistic math. In the long run, you win three out of four. This is known. This is Omaha.

Omaha is a game of accuracy, clarity and concrete information. Sure, sometimes you will get unlucky, and since Omaha edges are so huge, when you get unlucky it can be pretty hard to swallow, but since the edges are usually so big, if you play good starting hands in Omaha, and get unlucky, you can still win. You just have to keep your discipline.



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For a good article on why to play Omaha/8, see Cappalletti