River Play (live 5-5 NL)

[Ulysses]

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wait, are you saying 20+20+50 is NOT equal to 70?!?!?!

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Heh, indeed. I was actually responding more to the initial responder who said you should bet less ("closer to pot") on the flop.

As you pointed out, if you raise any less on the flop, you'd be approaching min-raise territory.

[Ulysses]

I think you psyched yourself out here a little bit, which happens to most of us at times. Against this opponent, perhaps value-betting $100 on the river was an option? But given the fact that you don't think this opponent would call with one pair (though, given the speed of his calls on the flop and turn, are you sure?), your decision is not that bad. One thing to consider is that one pair will often call a half-pot bet in spots like this, hoping you're on a busted flush draw.

Here's a hand w/ a somewhat similar river decision (a much weaker hand, but similar principles apply): Another river decision

[The Ocho]

yeah, i think i may have gotten a bit psyched out by the stakes here. I'd hate to lose my entire buy-in only about a half dozen hands after I decided to try a bigger game. In a lower stakes game I'd bet here nearly 100% of the time. I was playing ultra-cautious, which ended up working out well against a weak field, but the game is still a bit out of my comofort zone. Thanks for the link and the thoughts.

As for the smallish value bet, I'd say he definitely would have paid off with a mediocre queen based upon what I saw of his later play. I guess against an unknown player in a higher stake game I just assume that every player is better than average until proven otherwise. Had this hand happened an hour later, I would have made more money but dems the breaks.

[Zag]

Don't overdo the re-thinking. You made a read at the table and you acted on it. I firmly believe that your reads will not get better unless you trust them. If you had second-guessed yourself at the table, and decided that A5 or 56 were just too unlikely, you really would have been kicking yourself when he check-raised.

Consider that this move also gave you an image that you were later able to exploit. All-in-all, I think you did the right thing, even though it may not have worked out for the best this time.

[ML4L]

Hey Ocho,

Betting a little more on the turn will make things clear-cut. I bet $100. If he calls $100, and the deuce comes on the river, things are easy, and here's why...

Anyone who would call $100 there with 65 would also be dumb enough to call on the river with a queen and a bad kicker. So, you bet... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

As the hand played, I'd still take my chances and bet, but your thought process was fine. I know you'll bet it next time. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

ML4L

[Phat Mack]

I think that if you are worried about being beat, you should bet more in the earlier rounds to get information. Your betting represents a Q with a questionable kicker. You're trying to find a Q with a good kicker to give you some money. (I don't think you can put him on an overpair here, but as you have mentioned, it's early in the game.) When you find your customer you need to milk a little more out of him on the river.

I'd hate to lose my entire buy-in only about a half dozen hands after I decided to try a bigger game.

Since losing your buy-in was a concern, I think you should consider smaller NL games where you'll have more bullets. If you play NL in a buy-in-preservation mode, it can be detrimental to your EV. Another thing you might consider is not playing 44's; they're really not that profitable unless you extract a maximum return from them.

Just some thoughts,

Mack

[AJo Go All In]

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All-in-all, I think you did the right thing, even though it may not have worked out for the best this time.

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ok mr. rogers, that was a fun trip down gumdrop lane, but let's not be counterproductive. back to reality. he did the wrong thing. and even if it would have worked out this time, it still would be the wrong thing.

with only 75-80 BBs to lose there is no excuse for not getting max value out of this hand. there is nothing more crucial to big bet poker than getting your strong hands paid off.

[Zag]

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All-in-all, I think you did the right thing, even though it may not have worked out for the best this time.

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ok mr. rogers, that was a fun trip down gumdrop

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LOL! I deserved that. Maybe I was just a little pollyannish.

[The Ocho]

Thanks for the words fellas. I know I played the hand like a bit of a Nancy, and I fully expected (and hoped, maybe?) to be chastized a little bit for it. Usually I'm a bit loose aggressive (I've been called a maniac on multiple occasions), so this hand was a bit out of character for me.

I never woulda played in this game if not for a 3 hour waitlist on the smaller game, so I wasn't quite prepared for it, and intimidated by what I thought would be excellent players at this level. And AJo, I know I'm a new guy around here, but I like your style, so feel free (not that you want or need my permission) to let me have it anytime you wish.