Besides Razz, is O8 the most luck-driven game out there?

[jaeon]

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Does the phrase "like watching paint dry" adequately describe the correct strategy for playing 0H?

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yeah, that's why i'm reading this forum while i play. :-)

[bearly]

good subject. i'm glad someone brought up the comparison w/ holdem'. when the internet pros start mouthing off about the poorer players play i usually type in: "what are you talking about? holdem' is 80% luck, 10% understanding of math and statistics, and , maybe, 10& skill" needless to say, i have to turn of the chat after that. seriously, i know of no open-handed game commonly played that has the luck factor of holdem. now about razz. people who really play it a lot call it 7 card low. and it has a high degree of skill involved if played properly----so much information is known---and if you play limit, the betting tells you more still. good luck all

[beset7]

I've been studying Omaha/8 for the last few months. My two cents:

1. Skip the Limit SNGs. Especially at Party. May as well play blackjack. Save your money.

2. If you are serious about learning the game and dont want to take a big swing in your bankroll, i suggest you buy the Omaha/8 simulator from Wilson Software. Play 10,000 hands on normal settings (with the zip feature this doesn't take very long) against the "low limit" lineup. Check the odds screen frequently. Learn the math. Run high-speed simulations when you encounter an interesting hand.

3. Then, play another 10,000 hands with the simulator set to "Deal Calling Hands Only" This will give you plenty of opportunities to learn about folding 2nd nut full houses, second trips, straights, 3rd nuts flushs and 2nd lows. This is to re-train you to ignore what I call the weak/tight-o-meter that HE players acquire over time. In Omaha/8, you will often raise before the flop and then fold to a bet when you don't get a big enough piece of the flop. This is at worst a minor mistake with 3rd nut draws or hands with only low features 2nd nut or worse. At best you're playing good Omaha/8. The "Advisor" screen is going to tell you to bet lots of hands that you should fold. Let it call you tight/passive. Just watch the fake chips pile up.

4. Ray Zee's book. Buy it.

4. Use the search feature and read all of the posts by "Buzz" in the Other Poker forum. Also, Annie Duke's web site has some good introductory articles about over-playing certain hands (AAxx, A2xx). Good stuff.

This is a much cheaper way to learn Omaha8. Then, add a few Omaha/8 tables to your lineup and watch your stack grow with a little effort and no FPS.

[SheridanCat]

Omaha/8 is a wonderful game. Especially when hold'em players sit down at the table. They don't understand that they need to tighten their starting hand standards. They also don't understand that TPTK or two pair are junk and that sets are dangerous to marry.

If you're sitting with a bunch of people that know how to play, it's a very boring game. When that happens, look for another table.

Regards,

T

[ddubois]

How few? In terms of VP$IP, what is a good VP$IP for omaha8 limit? For pot-limit O8?

In my brief stint trying O8, it felt like I would get a legitimate calling hand very rarely, less than once an orbit, and then 80% of those times the flop would miss me completely and I would have to fold. I really did not like the game.

[jimymat]

We play a home game called Omaha pineapple. Everyone gets 8 cards. You see a flop, then have to discard 4 cards. Then hand plays out like regular. This game is great for players who love to play to many hands. Its my dealers choice everytime. Just wait for the nuts.

[BarronVangorToth]

I would also question the original premise insofar as calling Razz a heavily luck-driven game.

While I'm far from a Razz expert, from what I've learned, this wouldn't be the case ... and I think a good example would be the final 3 from this year's Razz Championship: Howard Lederer, TJ C., and Dutch Boyd -- must be "lucky" guys, eh?

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com

[soko]

I think the luck factor was exactly what they were trying to portray in that WSOP razz game, you kept hearing them talk about how the game would make you go crazy and the huge percentage swings with each card dealt.

[benfranklin]

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How few? In terms of VP$IP, what is a good VP$IP for omaha8 limit?

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I don't have the sources in front of me, so the following are from memory.

1. On his web site ( a very good source for Omaha strategy), Steve Badger says that in a typical limit game you should be seeing the flop about 1.5 times per round from the blinds and about the same from other positions. That's an average of about 3 times per round, and generally one of those 3 will be checking in the big blind.

2. In his book on O8, Cappelletti talks about a computer simulation he did. He put together a tight list of starting hands he would recommend seeing the flop, and ran a simulation to see how often players outside the blinds were dealt those starting hands in a 10 player game. He found that on average, fewer than 2 players per hand (1.8 if I remember) had starting cards that they could see the flop with.