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  #1  
Old 05-12-2005, 04:43 AM
Heimdal Heimdal is offline
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Default 600 nl KK UTG

I limp UTG with KK. EP raises to $30. I put him on AA-TT, AK-AQ. We both have full stacks. He is average, not tricky, perhaps a little loose postflop.
Folded to me. I call.
Flop is 833r. He will bet the flop when checked to.
What's your plan?
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  #2  
Old 05-12-2005, 04:48 AM
PokerGodess PokerGodess is offline
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Default Re: 600 nl KK UTG

I don't know many people who are a little loose postflop who only openraise pf with AQ/AK, TT-AA. I think that you need to be more realistic with the villains range of hands here.

That said if I think that he will call a bet with AQ/AK then I would lead into him and hope to get raised if he has TT-QQ (i would then call the raise and lead the turn.)
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  #3  
Old 05-12-2005, 05:05 AM
technologic technologic is offline
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Default Re: 600 nl KK UTG

full stacks = 100xbb?

i think i would lead out. if he autobets this flop, there's no way to know what he has by check calling, etc. by leading out, you can pretty much narrow down his range of hands. if he calls, he probably has AA/KK/QQ/JJ and can procced with caution. if he raises, it's PROBABLY a good idea to muck.

i would probably lead the turn again if he called, and see his action. if he moves in, it's a faster muck, as he's not going to get much fold equity by raising your double barrel shotgun blast.

on the river, if you get that far, i'd check/fold. he would not bet the river with QQ/JJ and would probably want to get a showdown.
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  #4  
Old 05-12-2005, 05:11 AM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Default Re: 600 nl KK UTG

Are you serious? If I bet out this flop, it could very easily be telling the guy "I think you missed, I have 66/77 and I'm pretty sure I'm ahead". His raise could be JJ.

I like leading out here, getting raised, calling and then leading out the turn.

Check/folding the river is terrible.
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  #5  
Old 05-12-2005, 05:33 AM
Heimdal Heimdal is offline
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Default Re: 600 nl KK UTG

We both had 100BB. 9-handed
He raised from EP that's why I thought he had a big hand
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  #6  
Old 05-12-2005, 06:05 AM
foldem foldem is offline
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Default Re: 600 nl KK UTG

You want to play a big pot here I think. The best way to do this is leading out for 3/4 pot, hoping to get raised. He will almost always raise you with QQ-TT as you have shown no strength pre-flop. If you think he will follow through on the turn with a bet after you call his flop raise I like check-raising the turn all in better than doing a stop and go. If you think he may check behind then I think betting out half-pot on the turn and again on the river works.

Check raising the flop will get a little more money from a whiffed A high hand but it may also let him off a mid pair cheaply.
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  #7  
Old 05-12-2005, 06:36 AM
okayplayer okayplayer is offline
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Default Re: 600 nl KK UTG

I think I am the only one, but I would c/r the flop and lead the turn. If he is auto betting AK/AQ, I want to get his money with those hands and not let him off cheaply. Unless he is the type to think you are semi bluffing or he can move you off a medium pair and raise you with AK/AQ, I think c/r'ing will get more money. There are 24 combos of AK/AQ and 18 of TT/JJ/QQ. I think that TT and JJ will proceed pretty cautious with you leading out and especially after calling him if he raises the flop. I would also c/r a wide range of hands here against alot of opponents though.
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  #8  
Old 05-12-2005, 07:13 AM
creedofhubris creedofhubris is offline
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Default Re: 600 nl KK UTG

[ QUOTE ]
I think I am the only one, but I would c/r the flop and lead the turn. If he is auto betting AK/AQ, I want to get his money with those hands and not let him off cheaply. Unless he is the type to think you are semi bluffing or he can move you off a medium pair and raise you with AK/AQ, I think c/r'ing will get more money. There are 24 combos of AK/AQ and 18 of TT/JJ/QQ. I think that TT and JJ will proceed pretty cautious with you leading out and especially after calling him if he raises the flop. I would also c/r a wide range of hands here against alot of opponents though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Check/raise flop, bet turn is a good line here. It wins money from AK/AQ that you would not otherwise win (because he will autobet, but he might fold if you lead out), and he's still not going to be able to get away from JJ-QQ very easily.
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  #9  
Old 05-12-2005, 07:39 AM
-Skeme- -Skeme- is offline
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Default Re: 600 nl KK UTG

[ QUOTE ]
Are you serious? If I bet out this flop, it could very easily be telling the guy "I think you missed, I have 66/77 and I'm pretty sure I'm ahead". His raise could be JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it could be Jacks, but most likely it's not. Villain is a loose player, which means he's opening with far more mediocre hands then rockcrushers. If he has Jacks, then I really doubt he's getting away from them, even if Hero check-raises. A check-raise could also mean, "I think you missed and I'm pretty sure I'm way ahead." If Hero has garbage, he's making a continuation bet regardless. Might aswell check-raise his autobet and take it down if he's missed. Leading out pretty much eliminates the chance to take free money away from Villain when he's missed his hand. Given the type of player that Villain is, I see him having less than stellar hands more often than not.
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  #10  
Old 05-12-2005, 07:53 AM
greywolf greywolf is offline
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Default Re: 600 nl KK UTG

i like to vary my game in spots like this. I dont see many bad lines here unless you play it very passive (check/call all streets) or maybe very aggresive(checkraise allin on flop) I think my standard line here with 100 BB would be lead the flop - call a raise -checkraise allin on turn.
You could also check/raise the flop and move on on him on turn but that would show more strenght and might get him to fold a pair of jacks. I I could also see cr flop and cr turn but that would show HUGE strenght and he might nog bet the turn or fold the turn with an lower PP than KK.


Different lines has different advantages , if hes very aggresive let him do some of the betting for you. If he is passive/bad make sure money goes into the middle by betting big. I am assuming you are stacking off here if he has a better hand and that you want to play a big pot here.
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