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  #31  
Old 12-21-2005, 11:10 PM
Unabridged Unabridged is offline
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Default Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't someone developing a program called "supamine"? What's the point if Party Beta is going to make it irrelevant?

John

[/ QUOTE ]

he's already working on a way to get observed hands without reading the .hhf
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  #32  
Old 12-22-2005, 12:05 AM
Voltron87 Voltron87 is offline
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Default Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Isn't someone developing a program called "supamine"? What's the point if Party Beta is going to make it irrelevant?

John

[/ QUOTE ]

he's already working on a way to get observed hands without reading the .hhf

[/ QUOTE ]

right, and then party will ban the new supamine program or pahud. if party wants observer mining gone, goddamnit it will be gone.
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  #33  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:27 AM
Pov Pov is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 145
Default Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Isn't someone developing a program called "supamine"? What's the point if Party Beta is going to make it irrelevant?

John

[/ QUOTE ]

he's already working on a way to get observed hands without reading the .hhf

[/ QUOTE ]

right, and then party will ban the new supamine program or pahud. if party wants observer mining gone, goddamnit it will be gone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, for the resourceful they'll never be able to prevent screen capture (assuming they would ever intend to). To anticipate, no, they can't prevent you from running an external program because you can always run Party from a virtual machine or terminal and screen capture from the host system. Of course that's too complex for the casual player, but then again, the casual player doesn't really gain anything from data mining in the first place I suppose. So anyway, if they want to remove observer mining they will have to remove observing.
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  #34  
Old 12-22-2005, 09:29 AM
POKhER POKhER is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: .50/1 At Stars - LONDON, UK.
Posts: 590
Default Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect

[ QUOTE ]
'Very easily identify the cards from the image analysis huh? I can program, and i can't think of a way to do this.'

Couldn't you just datamine on a second computer and replace all the card images with white fields containing a code that is easily decipherable by software?

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed, this just sparked so many ideas off [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Time to get coding [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Of course most programs released to the public will get banned, thats why most programmers who release their products will find themselves having to constantly upgrade and redistribute the software they have made to their paying customers(Provided they have offered support I.E. PAHUD).

Thats why i'll never release any software i create ^_^ unless people pay a big price and even then, i wouldn't offer support.
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  #35  
Old 12-22-2005, 12:12 PM
Voltron87 Voltron87 is offline
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Default Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect

ok, i will change my statement to "if party wants observer mining gone, goddamnit they will make it infeasible and too much of a pain for 99% of players."
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  #36  
Old 12-22-2005, 01:12 PM
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Default Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect

[ QUOTE ]
ok, i will change my statement to "if party wants observer mining gone, goddamnit they will make it infeasible and too much of a pain for 99% of players."

[/ QUOTE ]

Not that it matters. 90+% of the players don't mine anyway (the casual players). Of the 10% remaining, it only takes .1% of them with programming knowledge to decide to sniff the IP packets and write a program that mines on a and displays status on a separate system.

For serious 2+2 types, I doubt requiring a 2nd monitor and system to run mining software and have all the stats will deter them. All this work to prevent datamining really will have a minor impact, particularly if you count hands played.

Say:
90% of hands are by people who don't datamine
5% (the semi-serious players) will give it up
5% (the die-hards) will work around it with a 2nd system

Now, weight that by hands played, the die-hards play waaaay more hands than anyone else. The EXACT demographic that plays the most datamined hands won't be really affected.

So, all this effort only stops a fairly small percentage of played hands from using datamining help. Effort I'd much rather see spent on improved bot and collusion detection, or, god forbid, good customer service.
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  #37  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:25 PM
jba jba is offline
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Default Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect

"Of the 10% remaining, it only takes .1% of them with programming knowledge to decide to sniff the IP packets and write a program that mines on a and displays status on a separate system."

if this is actually possible I'm never playing online poker again. It almost certainly isn't..
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  #38  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:31 PM
slavic slavic is offline
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: \"Let me make it nearly unanimous -- misplayed on every street.\"
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Default Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect

[ QUOTE ]
"Of the 10% remaining, it only takes .1% of them with programming knowledge to decide to sniff the IP packets and write a program that mines on a and displays status on a separate system."

if this is actually possible I'm never playing online poker again. It almost certainly isn't..

[/ QUOTE ]

Possible? Yea anything is possible. Doable in our lifetime, yea probably. Worth the effort, not likely.
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  #39  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:32 PM
OrangeHeat OrangeHeat is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Syracuse, New York
Posts: 446
Default Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect

[ QUOTE ]
I apologize if this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find anything.

My understanding is that Party Beta software does not permit importing observed hands, and that will become the rule eventually.

I've never been a big miner myself, mostly because I've been playing elsewhere. But I'm just curious: are people making any special efforts to datamine at Party in anticipation of this change?

And is there going to be a big market for selling observed hands, in the immediate aftermath of the change, whenever it happens?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. Best move party could make! Took long enough.

Orange
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  #40  
Old 12-22-2005, 03:34 PM
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Of the 10% remaining, it only takes .1% of them with programming knowledge to decide to sniff the IP packets and write a program that mines on a and displays status on a separate system."

if this is actually possible I'm never playing online poker again. It almost certainly isn't..

[/ QUOTE ]

Possible? Yea anything is possible. Doable in our lifetime, yea probably. Worth the effort, not likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Christ, it's trivial for anyone with IP traffic knowledge (and there's plenty). There are packet sniffers freely available.

You simply have a system A watch traffic on the network and datamine. You play on system B on the same network. You know the reason your boss could track EVERY thing you do on the web at work? Because all that info flies over the network. It's not like you have some sort of private line for your data.

God awful trivial. Again, you just need ONE motivated engineer to figure out the packet structure. He then just sells/gives the app to everyone else just like the guy that made PokerTracker did.

Then you get the arms race of Party encrypting packets, rotating keys, etc, and we'll see if the datamining engineers want to try to keep up with it.
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