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  #1  
Old 07-02-2005, 08:49 PM
bobdibble bobdibble is offline
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Default Muckleshoot 20/40: check the turn in order to raise the river..

This play was inspired by the "checking can sometimes be aggressive thread."

BB seems like he might be a good-TAGish player, but is stuck quite a bit and is visibly titlting. However, when playing the better players at the table, he appears to be making some very tough, but seemingly correct, folds.

I open in EP w/AQo. Folded to BB. BB calls.

Flop: AK9 rainbow
BB checks, I bet, BB raises. I call.

Turn: A
BB checks. I check.

River: blank
BB bets, I raise.

Ya?
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  #2  
Old 07-02-2005, 11:10 PM
benwood benwood is offline
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Default Re: Muckleshoot 20/40: check the turn in order to raise the river..

Looks like a good time for the turn check. Free cards are not dangerous,and you will probably get more bets from him by playing possum [old southern expression] for a minute.
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  #3  
Old 07-03-2005, 12:31 AM
elindauer elindauer is offline
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Default Re: Muckleshoot 20/40: check the turn in order to raise the river..

No, just bet. He probably won't fold an ace after he has encouraged you to take a shot at it. He may check a 9 again though, which will cost you 1 BB. If he has a gutshot, checking is terrible.

Good luck.
Eric
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  #4  
Old 07-03-2005, 12:54 AM
elysium elysium is offline
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Default Re: Muckleshoot 20/40: check the turn in order to raise the river..

hi bob

you played it perfectly on the turn. it would have been slightly worse (but not necessarily errant) to have bet the turn. it's just that you played the turn perfectly.

the river, though, is played more perfectly by calling instead of raising. this just looks a lot like AK, AT, or K9. this isn't to say that you don't have a value raise on the river; clearly you do. but this one situation is very unique. it doesn't appear to be AX. with AX, this opponent will usually call you down, allowing you to take shots at him assuming he has you trailing his AX. when you check-down the turn, however, he must put you on AX or a hand that he beats. so when he betsout on the river, he is either way ahead or way behind, so therefore your river raise has value only in the case of his holding AX; but, but....he will have the AX frequently enough and you will not likely be reraised by him on the river enough times to deter raising him.

so why call on the river? i don't know bob. i do not have the answer to that one. i just know that you should call even though you have a value raise. somehow you do slightly better to call on the river. it's....it's because you played it so perfectly on every round of the hand that you you just don't want to spoil it by opening a can of worms. it's preservation of beauty if you will. preservation of this masterpiece. it's just good for your session. if you call the river instead of raising, you win no matter what he turns over. you also see what he was check-raising and betting with, and when you turn over your hand, it will add crucial variance to your game. you really need to include in your repetoire, a couple of hands every now and then that tells your opponents in subsequent hands that you may be meekly caLling with a strong raising hand.

now if this were the only hand that you were ever going to play, then you must raise the river for value. but sometimes on rare occasions, even if you have a value raise, it is correct to call, IMO. this type call adds depth to your game in spots neglected by many good players.

but yeah, on the turn, you played it plu-perfectly.
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