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#1
06-07-2005, 01:52 PM
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Playing Deep
This is mainly a hypothetical question because there have been times scenarios like these have gotten me in trouble. Say you and villain both have 5-8 times the buy in. You flop top set of, lets say kings on a K108 board with two to a suit. If you are in position and bet the pot and are checkraised by villain. In this instance, your read on villain is that this does not mean second set, he could have the straight/flush draw with JQ9A or even as little as open ender with flush draw or top two with flush. Another raise will only commit 1/4 -1/2 your stack in the flop. Do you repot it again or wait for a safe turn. Obviously if you wait you are letting him draw cheap, and its also possible he could bluff with second set if a scare card hits. How would a cold caller of villains checkraise change your decision. Does your choice change if positions are reversed and you bet out in EP and villain raises from button?
Given a 1 buy in stack repopping it and getting all in is an easy decision, but when sitting on a big stack I seem to get in trouble if I repop it then a scarecard hits, mainly when I'm out of position or in position and villain bets into me when an obvious draw completes 
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#4
06-07-2005, 05:03 PM
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Re: Playing Deep
If you can get 1/2 your stack in then you will have the odds to call a turn bet even if a scare card comes. The drawbacks are that you won't have enough left to offer him improper odds on the turn if a blank comes off, and he could have the best hand right now. But there are many hands that you would be ahead of that he might play this way, e.g. QJTT, AQJ9os, AQJJ, JTT9, 679J, etc. Your odds are even better if you have some blocking cards on the side of your KK. He needs some very specific hands to be ahead, and, even then, he will be not be better than 55-45 or so most of the time.
If you chose to call, I wouldn't worry too much about having villain bluff a scare card with middle set. If villain has middle set, and you just call, he is going to put you on a very strong draw and any card that scares you will scare him. Villain will be able to save his money on the turn if the board pairs, however. One good thing about just calling is that you might trick middle set into firing at a blank on the turn. I suspect that this decision (raise/call) is very close to EV neutral, so how you play it should probably depend on what kind of table image you want and how much variance you can tolerate. I would usually raise, because I don't wan't anyone to start thinking that they should get cute from out of position against me. Re-raising with a legitimate hand like this one will slow down anyone who thinks check-raising me is a good idea because I am playing too aggressively in late position.
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#5
06-07-2005, 05:24 PM
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Re: Playing Deep
Reraise pot, get all in on the flop if you can.
With KK on a KT8 board, you are 51-49 against AQJ9, 59-41 against open ended str8 flush draw, and 78-22 against TTP/flush draw. You are only a 44-56 dog against AQJ9+flush draw. Aside from that hand, you can factor a good percentage of the time the opponent will outright fold against a pot reraise against a deep stack. Plus factor in the few times your opponent will call you with middle/bottom set and its definitely +EV to be getting all in. -Matt
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#6
06-07-2005, 10:44 PM
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Re: Playing Deep
[ QUOTE ]
If you can get 1/2 your stack in then you will have the odds to call a turn bet even if a scare card comes. The drawbacks are that you won't have enough left to offer him improper odds on the turn if a blank comes off, and he could have the best hand right now. But there are many hands that you would be ahead of that he might play this way, e.g. QJTT, AQJ9os, AQJJ, JTT9, 679J, etc. Your odds are even better if you have some blocking cards on the side of your KK. He needs some very specific hands to be ahead, and, even then, he will be not be better than 55-45 or so most of the time. If you chose to call, I wouldn't worry too much about having villain bluff a scare card with middle set. If villain has middle set, and you just call, he is going to put you on a very strong draw and any card that scares you will scare him. Villain will be able to save his money on the turn if the board pairs, however. One good thing about just calling is that you might trick middle set into firing at a blank on the turn. I suspect that this decision (raise/call) is very close to EV neutral, so how you play it should probably depend on what kind of table image you want and how much variance you can tolerate. I would usually raise, because I don't wan't anyone to start thinking that they should get cute from out of position against me. Re-raising with a legitimate hand like this one will slow down anyone who thinks check-raising me is a good idea because I am playing too aggressively in late position. [/ QUOTE ] Excellent post.
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