Can i get away from this

[El Tigre]

7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (hand converter)

3rd Street - (0.88 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in

4th Street - (2.88 SB)

Seat 3: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___folds
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 7: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___raises
Seat 8: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

Seeing as another queen is out i find it unlikely that seat 7 has trips. I raise trying to get a free card on 5th. Is this a correct play? However i get reraised which means they probably dohave trips.

5th Street - (5.94 BB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___raises
Seat 7: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___raises___calls

6th Street - (13.94 BB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___raises___calls
Seat 7: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___raises___raises

River - (21.94 BB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___bets

Total pot: (23.94 BB)

Could i have gotten away from this hand at any point?

[Tracer21]

Fold 3rd

You have a 4 and an 8 dead, as well as a 3.

I'd call fourth.

On 6th it looks like your beat, but I'd probably call on the end too.

Did he have buried tens?

[Vike]

I don't like your raise on 4th, your hand screams draw and you beg to be 3-bet there by the Queens. Plus 2 of your straight cards are out already making your draw not all that strong. Maybe you're hoping to bet them out of the pot if you catch another club on 5th?

I really don't like your reraise on 6th. Your board screams straight yet you get check-raised. Except against complete maniacs you should be in cry call mode at that point. Against some players you can dump it right there.

If you were to dump this hand dump it on 4th when the pot is small, 2 straight cards are out and you're facing an open overpair. By 6th street the pot is big enough to pay most players off.

[El Tigre]

thank you i knew i should have folded early in the hand when i had the chance. i missed the 8 and 4 on 3rd, i guess not concentrating hard enough. The guy had Q 2 in the hole and made his boat [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[frappeboy]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise trying to get a free card on 5th.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is good thinking, but the wrong time for this play.. When someone has a strong board like this I usually just call because you are much less likely to get a free card.

[mscags]

You certainly aren't folding this, but i see no reason to be capping sixth. Just check and call after fifth.

[bholdr]

fold third. your draw has three dead cards already out, and it's a relitivly low-ante game.

failing that, fold fourth. your draw is only marginally live annd you're a big dog to a set.

if you must draw, fer god's sake, fold sixth to the check-raise, he has a full house.

there are many places where you should've gotten away from this hand.

[bholdr]

About the free card raise on third: it's a good play, but you're trying it in a terrible spot. if he does have a set, there is no way he's not gonna re-raise and bet into you on fourth, so instead of saving a small bet, you've A: cost yourself a big bet, and B: built the pot to the point where you're tied on after you make the secone best hand. you really should've folded fourth. here's a sim that shows your approximate equity vs a set and vs two pair (his only other likely holding):

vs a set:7-card Stud Hi: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qc Qd 6d Qh 367241 73.45 132759 26.55 0 0.00 0.734
6s 7c 5d 4h 132759 26.55 367241 73.45 0 0.00 0.266

vs two pair: 7-card Stud Hi: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qc 6d Qh 6h 319715 63.94 180285 36.06 0 0.00 0.639
6s 7c 5d 4h 180285 36.06 319715 63.94 0 0.00 0.361

and vs JUST a pair of queens:
Qc Ad 6d Qh 264416 52.88 235584 47.12 0 0.00 0.529
6s 7c 5d 4h 235584 47.12 264416 52.88 0 0.00 0.471

Basicly, you are a dog in this pot no matter what the opponent has,and thoughyou're getting the pot odds you need for a call, you're setting yourself up to be victimized by the reverse implied odds. FOLD that mother. straight draws need multiway pots if they're dead like yours is/was.

i cannot stress enough that one should give credit for the set (ESPECIALLY since hie DIDN'T double bet) unless you have a good read or good notes to indicate otherwise, and it is hugely -EV to draw at straights and flushes against a made set on fourth.

One intresting thing that these sims don't really show is that against two pair, you'll still need to make the straight to win, but when you do, he'll have a four-outer to redraw, wheras against a set, he has a ton of redraws even if you make your hand. here's an intresting sim:

7-card Stud Hi: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qs Qc 6d Qh 252012 50.40 247988 49.60 0 0.00 0.504
7c 6c 5c 4c 247988 49.60 252012 50.40 0 0.00 0.496

even an OESFD (with no dead cards) is a slight dog to a set- the pot would justify calling until the river, though.

[beta1607]

I agree with everything you said except this:

[ QUOTE ]
if you must draw, fer god's sake, fold sixth to the check-raise, he has a full house.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that the pot is too big to fold on 6th here, just call the check raise and call 7th.

[bholdr]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that the pot is too big to fold on 6th here, just call the check raise and call 7th.

[/ QUOTE ]

i actually aggree- maybe... the advise to fold on sixth was really based on the assumption that when he got there, if he had played more correctly to that point, the pot would still be small enough to fold. even so, it's a marginal call right there- the pot is 14BB and crying calls would cost two more, so he's risking 2BB to win 16, which means he should be more than 90% sure the villan has the boat to fold. i may still fold- i am about 90% sure he has it on fifth, then the check-raise comes... and he's completly without redraws... i think i'd still say fold.