The "Hit and Run"

ECondreras · #1 08-13-2003, 03:14 PM

In my short carrer of $25 Party NLHE, I have witnessed a fair amount of players that "hit and run". You know the guy - calls an all-in bet and hits his 3 outer and immediately leaves the table. I am the first to admit that I have a hard time handling a bad beat, but when the player pulls a Houdini and immediately dissapears from the table, it sends me into a rage.

My question is how do you deal with a player like this? I instantly add them to my "buddy" list. I will then go out of my way to find a game (either right then or at a later date) with them in it and try my damndest to make their life miserable. I will make sure to use one of my other accounts to do this (Party, Empire, or Intertops). This has to be considered a form of tilting, except I will not make a bad play in order to exact revenge. But I will sit at a table for as long as it takes. Is this nutty or what?

Could you imagine someone in a card room delivering a bad beat and then just scooping up their chips and running for the door? I have never played live NLHE, so I don't know if this happens, but I would be extremely tempted to introduce the gentleman's stomach to his teeth if it did.

There is no law that says you can't hit and run, but it sure doesn't seem right.

P.S. There have been times where I had planned on leaving a table after x amount of hands, but if I bust someone on what was to be my last or next to last hand (bad beat - which is rare - or not), I purposely play longer as to not give the impression that I am a hit and run player.

cferejohn · #2 08-13-2003, 03:59 PM

Try not to worry about it. What will happen much more often to this player is that he will call an all-in and *not* hit his three outer and then leave the table.

One reason I like tournaments is that this kind of thing isn't an option.

Wake up CALL · #3 08-13-2003, 04:11 PM

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Could you imagine someone in a card room delivering a bad beat and then just scooping up their chips and running for the door? I have never played live NLHE, so I don't know if this happens, but I would be extremely tempted to introduce the gentleman's stomach to his teeth if it did.

There is no law that says you can't hit and run, but it sure doesn't seem right.

P.S. There have been times where I had planned on leaving a table after x amount of hands, but if I bust someone on what was to be my last or next to last hand (bad beat - which is rare - or not), I purposely play longer as to not give the impression that I am a hit and run player.

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Sure it happens in live games as well and noone gives it a 2nd thought. Just curious, what is it that doesn't seem right to you? Are you lealous becasue they won? Or took what was previously your money and is now theirs and left? I just do not understand why it bothers you. Keep in mind there is no contract in poker to play a certain period of time. If the same player came in, played one hand and lost their buyin then left would that bother you as well? Why not?

These are questions you need to answer and understand why you feel this way. It is a problem with your perception of events, not the event itself that is wrong. Just my opinion......

ECondreras · #4 08-13-2003, 04:55 PM

Keep in mind that the majority of the time these people do not log off. They leave the table and then buy in at another table. Why is it that when a player is winning and he leaves the table to dump the cash (rat-holing?) and then they sit back down for the buy-in, that is a problem. To me, the hit and run is the exact same thing (or damn close to it).

I guess it also has something to do with my sense or honor. There are many games out there where certain action are within the rules, but deemed unethical or dishonorable (or bush). I think the hit and run play is bush and you do not. Fair enough. If this type of play bothers no one but me, then so be it. I am sure as I play more I will develop thicker skin.

Ulysses · #5 08-13-2003, 05:25 PM

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immediately dissapears from the table, it sends me into a rage.

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It's annoying, but it seems silly to react like this.

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My question is how do you deal with a player like this?

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He'll be back, and in the meantime, there are many more like him to get your money back from.

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I instantly add them to my "buddy" list. I will then go out of my way to find a game (either right then or at a later date) with them in it and try my damndest to make their life miserable.

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Why bother? Try not to let him affect you. Also keep in mind that these players are some of the smartest of the bad players. The real idiots will think they outplayed you and stay 'til they lose all their money. These guys at some level know they got really lucky and don't try and press their luck. Much harder to win a ton off of these guys.

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But I will sit at a table for as long as it takes. Is this nutty or what?

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I do the same thing in B&M games against certain opponents, and yes, it is nutty.

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Could you imagine someone in a card room delivering a bad beat and then just scooping up their chips and running for the door?

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Happens just about every session I play in both limit and no-limit hold'em.

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I have never played live NLHE, so I don't know if this happens, but I would be extremely tempted to introduce the gentleman's stomach to his teeth if it did.

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That's weird.

Ulysses · #6 08-13-2003, 05:27 PM

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I guess it also has something to do with my sense or honor. There are many games out there where certain action are within the rules, but deemed unethical or dishonorable (or bush).

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I don't think there's anything unethical or dishonorable about it. Would you feel this way if the guy stayed at the table for another two hours and folded every hand? What if the guy is just uncomfortable risking that much money after his win? Is it still dishonorable for him to leave?

Guy McSucker · #7 08-13-2003, 05:46 PM

Ignore it. Play your own game. If the guy played a hand terribly, remember that he's someone who makes mistakes and by all means prefer to play games populated by such players, but why go after someone just because they hit and run? If anything you'll make life harder for yourself because your quarry will keep leaving the games you find him in!

I have done this a couple of times. For whatever reason, I'm tilting before I sit down. I try to buy a pot that's not for sale and get raised big. In a cloud of rage I call and hit a 989-1 shot. Through my fog I see the chips get pushed to me, and see the magnitude of the beat I just put on someone. Suddenly I realise just how badly I played the hand and how much on tilt I am, so I leave.

In live games I often mention ahead of time that I'm planning on leaving in a few hands, which makes it less difficult to get up if I win my last pot, from a social perspective. It's not unethical or dishonourable to leave after winning a pot of course, but people do get upset about it, so a little point like that can make a difference. I do the same online, saying e.g. "one more orbit for me before the missus gets home" [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Guy.

cferejohn · #8 08-13-2003, 05:54 PM

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Keep in mind that the majority of the time these people do not log off. They leave the table and then buy in at another table. Why is it that when a player is winning and he leaves the table to dump the cash (rat-holing?) and then they sit back down for the buy-in, that is a problem. To me, the hit and run is the exact same thing (or damn close to it).

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PokerStars, at least, doesn't allow this. If you leave an NL table then sit back down at one within a certain length of time, you have to buy in for at least what you had when you left the previous one.

Byrn · #9 08-13-2003, 05:55 PM

This is one thing I have been thinking about in the online v. B&M comparison:

In online, you are still playing a game with yourself . You aren't really interacting with the players, talking about hands, seeing their physical recations, sharing a laugh, seeing who is a nice guy and who is a jerk, etc, etc.

In B&M, you are playing a much more social and interactive game. The other people at the table and the vibe of the table play a much greater role.

What does this mean to your post? Well, I notice the same types of things in my own play. I learned online and 99% of my play has been online. Essentially, I have been playing with myself (hehheh). I project my own impressions of the game into my observation of other player's play. In a B&M game, I am much more sensitive to the other players, and become part of the culture and mood of the game.

This is what you are doing: You think it isn't ok to hit and run, so you don't do it and don't like it when others do it. Perhaps a few others feel this way, but no one else really cares (or should). That's the nature of the game. Let them come back, bust the next person, or heck follow them to the next table (easy to do online, I have done it). The reason you continue to feel this way is that you are playing by yourself, instead of in a game with a group culture and becoming part of that culture. If I plan to leave on the next hand and win a big pot, I usually still leave. Giving other people a chance to win their money back doesn't even become a thought.

For example, I have a friend who only plays online and used to get real pissed when 5 people check and the button bets. He thought this just slowed down the game (as opposed to it being checked around and seeing the next card quickly), he didn't realize that the button has positional advantage, etc. and this is perfectly acceptable to do. If he had been playing a B&M game where he could be absorbed in the culture of the game, he would have noticed no one was upset about the button betting and maybe he would have learned about the advantage of position sooner (through conversation with other players). I would guess a lot of people probably view checkraising in the same way. They get pissed at their monitor, taking it as a personal affront. In most live games, no one will ever take offense personally, it is part of the game. They learn to react that way by observing the other players, instead of just having their own personal reaction grow without the cultural influence.

Anyway, your post just hit on something I have been thinking a lot about in general. Don't give it a second thought when a player leaves after a big score. Good for them!

ECondreras · #10 08-13-2003, 06:50 PM

My post stemmed from a series of sessions over the course of a few days where I ran into this type of play 4 times. That's 4 stacks of chips gone bye-bye on truly bad beats with the players running away. So I guess I am a little hypersensitive [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

After sitting back and reading the responses, I see that I am over reacting. And I did realize another thing: I hate to lose and when I do, I want a chance for revenge! Don't run away! Come play some more!

I am a hot-headed Italian - not the best makeup for NL poker. You should see me playing pool when someone drops the 9 ball by accident to beat me! Oh the pain!