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#52
09-26-2005, 11:29 AM
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Re: A2s in a 10/20 game. flop and turn questions.
what i think is best:
bet the flop if your opponents are passive, that is if you opponents rather call the flop instead of raising it. The reason to do this is not because you have a change that your hand is the best, neither because all of your opponents will fold, but because you might get a free card on the turn. Maybe MP made trips (three kings) and decides to check-raise the turn. greetz dutchsmoke 
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#53
09-26-2005, 11:31 AM
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Re: A2s in a 10/20 game. flop and turn questions.
[ QUOTE ]
calling with KQs here in a raised pot is also a loser. you are too often dominated. [/ QUOTE ] Dominated schmominated; KQs would be a raise in this spot. You're NOT against just 1 hand - that is when domination matters. When it's going to be 7 to the flop ... raise it up with KQs. Simply call with A2s. Barron Vangor Toth BarronVangorToth.com
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#54
09-26-2005, 11:37 AM
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Re: A2s in a 10/20 game. flop and turn questions.
[ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ] calling with KQs here in a raised pot is also a loser. you are too often dominated. you are so right amulet, so is calling with AQs, i mean comeone everyone knows that people often have got AK when they raise, so why even call? Thats really a sucker play. in fact calling with KK is dangerous, what if an ace shows up on the flop?! OMG, you will lose so much money!
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#55
09-26-2005, 11:51 AM
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Re: A2s in a 10/20 game. flop and turn questions.
[ QUOTE ]
calling with KQs here in a raised pot is also a loser. you are too often dominated. [/ QUOTE ] If anyone was taking your advice seriously before, they sure aren't now.
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#56
09-26-2005, 12:44 PM
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Re: A2s in a 10/20 game. flop and turn questions.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I would fold this preflop. To all the folks arguing that this is an easy preflop call, let me ask you something. Would you call with A2o here? [/ QUOTE ] no. but I often threebet with KQs and drop KQo like a dirty shirt. i can't beleive that you are comparing these 2 hands as nearly eqaul in value. [/ QUOTE ] FYP Barron
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#57
09-26-2005, 12:52 PM
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Re: A2s in a 10/20 game. flop and turn questions.
some thoughts:
1) amulet is well known to be a very very tight player. it works for him so im sure thats fine by his standards. those who try to vehemently disagree with amulet are nuts. he isn't going to call A2s here. period. 2) those who say call or fold KQs here, imo are missing out on value by choice (amulet) or by misunderstanding (somebody else whose post i fixed that i can't remember). KQs here is a value raise, it may be close, but its not nearly as close as "razor thin" to quote BVT. 3) sometimes i fold A2s here, sometimes i call A2s here...id say its probably 4:1 fold:call. i dont like being there with that hand too often. if these people demonstrate the characteristics required (horrible play, multiple raise payoff on later streets, slowplay big hands on early streets, check down otherwise) then that falls in the 20% (so long as there are many people in the pot) otherwise, A2s isn't that great... i dont see this as a hugely important spot that will dictate your massive improvement as a player (calling or folding A2s here)...however, i DO see the misunderstanding of such a spot to be a determinant of noticable decreases in bb/100 or any other metric of winning. Barron
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#58
09-26-2005, 12:58 PM
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Re: A2s in a 10/20 game. flop and turn questions.
[ QUOTE ]
calling with KQs here in a raised pot is also a loser. you are too often dominated. [/ QUOTE ] hahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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#59
09-26-2005, 01:10 PM
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Re: A2s in a 10/20 game. flop and turn questions.
Barron, i had this "discussion" with ed miller about kjs several weeks back in this form in a non raised pot. i did not completely agree then, and i think this is worse for 2 reasons:
1). 7 people going to see the flop is different, and not what will happen here. 2). KQs is most likely dominated. one of ed's points was that by raising, a player who was not good enough to get away from top pair, had the correct odds to continue if he raised preflop. it seems the player should learn to play better, instead of raise so he can't make mistakes on later streets. let me be clear, IN AN UNRAISED MULTIWAY POT I SEE REAL VALUE IN THE RAISE, but not here following an early raiser. for 2 bets even with position KQs has neg ev.
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