droolie pumping a draw

droolie · #1 01-13-2005, 12:48 AM

More madness from the wonkiest site on the bonus whore circuit... Pacific Poker!

No reads... 4-tabling and hardly paying attention to this lousy table...

Pacific Poker 1/2 (8 handed)

Rock Star is in the BB w/ J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Pre-Flop:
Everybody limps except the SB who folds Rock Star checks.

Flop: (7.5 SB ) 7-players

3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Rock star bets, UTG raises, MP calls, Fold, Fold, Fold, Button calls, Rock Star re-raises, UTG caps, MP calls, button calls.

Turn: (11.25 BB) 4 players

9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Rock star bets, UTG raises, MP calls, Rock Star calls.....

River: (17.25 BB) 3 players

4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Rock star bets, UTG raises, MP calls, Rock Star re-raises, UTG caps, MP calls, Rock Star calls.

Final Pot: 29.25 BB

Shillx · #2 01-13-2005, 01:01 AM

Looks overplayed to me. Pumping paired flops is sketch. The turn bet is madness. It don't looks like he is scared of the frush on the river...

Brad

bweiser8311962 · #3 01-13-2005, 01:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It don't looks like he is scared of the frush on the river...

[/ QUOTE ]

or he has the ace, therefore he's not scared.

droolie · #4 01-13-2005, 02:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Looks overplayed to me. Pumping paired flops is sketch. The turn bet is madness. It don't looks like he is scared of the frush on the river...

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

On the flop I assumed villian had a 3. Probably A3s. In that case I figured my outs were clean as long as the board didn't double pair or no A or 3 fell.

The turn bet was based on picking up the OESD. When villian kept jamming I started to worry about 103, 1010 or possibly 33.

When the flush hit I had no fears of him having one too. I figured since I was behind only 3 hands that the chance were good he was pumping his flopped trips and nothing more. Take that with the MP overlay I figured jamming was g00t. One of the best parts of ramming flush draws on the flop is that villains rarely suspect when you hit so they don't slow down as quickly.

Entity · #5 01-13-2005, 02:18 AM

Vastly overplayed. Capping with a flush draw on a paired board against 3 opponents is only slightly +EV, and then, only +EV if the opponent is a complete nutso LAG. Remember, when an opponent shows this degree of interest, it cuts your total outs down: you are not happy with the [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] of whatever else he holds in his hand. Given the remote posisbility of TT as well, you have to devalue the strength of your draw by maybe 20%, which would take you from 9 outs to 7.2 outs, and make a flop cap marginally +EV.

On the turn, betting is clearly the worst of the plays. UTG will bet. You have callers trapped, and now have quite a few more outs. With 3 callers and, for the sake of discussion, ~13 outs (again, devalued because of the paired board), you are 2.5:1 to come in, so you need everyone to call for a bet/raise to be profitable. Check. Let UTG bet; if everyone calls, checkraise and allow him to 3-bet. But don't bet here: betting is the worst of the options.

On the river, I'd checkraise and call a 3-bet, and it's really not even close. Get as much of everyone elses money into this pot as possible without risking much of your own.

On this hand I'd say you played preflop, and perhaps the flop, correctly.

Rob

DeathDonkey · #6 01-13-2005, 02:43 AM

I would check the flop, as the worst thing that could happen by betting indeed happened.

-DeathDonkey

droolie · #7 01-13-2005, 10:48 AM

Completing with any two suited I often find myself in EP with these kinds of draws. I'm always conscious of not wanting the betting to get checked through so I usually bet out and go from there. The flop bet I assumed was standard but the more I think about it I'm not so sure. The paired board is what made me second guess my play on this hand.

I agree that the turn bet was dumb but should I have check/ called or check/raised once MP came along? What if it comes back two bets? Do you lay this down?

Nick Royale · #8 01-13-2005, 11:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that the turn bet was dumb but should I have check/ called or check/raised once MP came along? What if it comes back two bets? Do you lay this down?

[/ QUOTE ]

Must be hard to lay a hand with 13 outs down getting at least 1:7 from the pot. Sure, sometimes you're drawing dead and you'll have to fear a 3-bet from UTG but I'll never fold to a raise.

Nick Royale · #9 01-13-2005, 11:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would check the flop, as the worst thing that could happen by betting indeed happened.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no way Hero can know UTG is going raise the flop. Isn't betting out in this pretty big pot standard here? Isn't this a hand where everybody would salut a bet if everybody would just have called instead?

Entity · #10 01-13-2005, 11:36 AM

Betting the flop is fine. This isn't a flop that is likely to get bet, especially by an EP player. Once it gets raised, well, you've got to determine what his likely range of raising hands is, if he's likely to cap if you 3-bet, if the others will call two cold again, etc.

The biggest difference about playing drawing hands on paired boards is that you need to be more cautious. I would not lay this hand down to two cold on the turn, because of the massive size of the pot. I would, however, be more reluctant to put in extra bets; this is a situation where you can be sure that pot odds are good enough to play the draw, but you can't be quite sure that your pot equity is high enough to be raising.

Rob