Slowplaying AA, higher variance but anything more?

Rotating Rabbit · #1 04-09-2005, 06:40 PM

Normally I raise AA every time from any position, but recently I've been trying to throw off any reads and have limped it in early position.

Here's one I didnt enjoy:

I have $880 behind, everyone is about that, main villian has me covered. (Hand from memory)

Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB checks.

Pot is $70, 7(!) players to the flop (the ONE time I limp!)

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero checks, all check.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB bets $20, BB folds, Hero raises to $90, 2 folds, CO raises to $225, Button folds, SB folds, Hero pushes for ¬$600 more, CO calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

When I checked the flop I was praying nobody had the 78, and I felt there was a good chance that:

a) Someone bets with the case ace
b) Someone bets with a set
c) If I give a free card someone will improve on the turn, but still be behind.

And of course this hand I got wasted by the 10[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I knew the risks and played for a big pot by slowplaying. Worst case scenario on the flop was that someone had 8 outs against me.

But on the general question of AA, I'm having a bit of an identity crisis on whether to take these kind of risks. Slowplaying aces seems to increase the variance on the results it brings, but other than occasionally doing it to show the table you sometimes do it, is it worth it as a regular play?

Has anyone actually looked at statistics of them playing AA two different ways preflop?

gomberg · #2 04-09-2005, 06:47 PM

I get much better results fast-playing them preflop. I actually like your limp here though as you're out of position and can limp-reraise if you want.

Oh well, plan failed until you hit an amazing flop! No flush draw and top set! Never slow-play a set of aces as the next card can always make a straight! ESPECIALLY w/ many limpers in there. Bet out, at least the pot, and hope someone gives you action - because there are many cards that can beat you on the turn - and no one is going to give you excessive action on a middle two pair with an ace out there. Most likely you win a small one here.

Vince Lepore · #3 04-09-2005, 07:36 PM

What is more important here is not whether limping with A,A is correct, it's how do you play them when you have less than the nuts. When the CO reraises sirens should go off in your head! You can't get away from this hand but you can "try" to minimize your loss. When the CO reraised he told you that he had a big hand. That should indicate a set of a straight. He has a bettor and a raiser in front of him. Unless he is a real dope he would not reraise without one of these two hands, set or straight. If he has a set he might be a little reluctant to reraise such a small amoutn with a straigth and flush draw out there and price the draw in. I think he makes a bigger raise with a set. His raise begs for a call. He must have a straight. You should just call the turn and see what happens.

Vince

Voltron87 · #4 04-09-2005, 09:05 PM

If you are going to check AA all the way to the turn you have to learn how to fold it.

soah · #5 04-09-2005, 09:10 PM

ffs he has the third nuts with a draw to beat the first and second nuts. Advising a fold here seems a wee bit results oriented. There's no way to know that the other guy didn't just pick up two pair or a set.

Checking the flop looks like a mistake though. I don't see how a free card is more likely to improve someone to a very strong second-best hand than it is to improve someone to a straight.

Voltron87 · #6 04-09-2005, 09:17 PM

I just meant in general, I wasn't talking about the hand in particular. I fold here only in my dreams.

Ghazban · #7 04-09-2005, 09:19 PM

I dislike the flop check. A benefit of not raising preflop is that, when you get a flop like this, nobody will put you on top set. Bet out and hope you get raised so you can get all-in on the turn. The straights that kill you with this turn card should not call a flop bet. Had you raised preflop, you might have reason to check this flop in the hope somebody puts you on KK/QQ/etc. and represents the ace by betting.

On the turn, what do you put CO on that's good enough to come over the top of both a bet and raise in front of him? I won't say you need to fold (you've got the 3rd nuts and a redraw to beat the first and second nuts) but you can't rule out the two hands that beat you due to the lack of betting/raising prior to this point in the hand.

Rotating Rabbit · #8 04-10-2005, 05:42 AM

Yeah, you're right the flop check was definitely an error.

On the turn I think im doomed no matter what I do. If he has 2 pair or set I want us all in now in case some 'scare card' hits on the river that gives him second thoughts. I think he has set/2pair at least as often here as the gutshot.

If I just call the 225 the pot will be about 550 and I'll have less than that behind and will end up all in on the river; if board pairs I'll obviously bet it, if it doesnt (and I dont bet, which is another tough call) he certainly will and I'll have to call.

So as I see it the only way I can lose money is by calling on the turn then him making an amazing laydown with his set/2pair/straight if counterfeited/flush card/board pairing as appropriate. So, im screwed...I've dug my own grave and really have to jump in [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Lucky · #9 04-10-2005, 02:08 PM

The preflop limp is ok. If you don't want to put in a full raise with it, you might also consider a mini raise in EP with AA, especially if you sometimes do this with small pp and suited connectors and somone might try to steal.

The flop check is very bad.

1. As happened someone could catch a straight.
2. Almost as damaging, someone else (idiotically as well) could fancy themselves overtricky and slowplay a set...then very possibly you dont get paid if the board becomes scary.

BET YOUR HANDS.

okayplayer · #10 04-10-2005, 09:26 PM

I usually don't limp with AA, except when I have a bad LAG behind me, because a limp-re-raise screams AA/KK, and you usually save someone w QQ/JJ (and to an extent KK) money as they then play for set value.

In terms of your hand, you need to get money in on the flop. When a limp-re-raise fails with AA, play your hand fast and hope someone caught a 2nd best hand to pay you off, but you have to be able to lay it down (though I'm not saying you should fold in this hand, I'd probably call the turn and hope for a cheap showdown, but that is unlikely...).