Ugghhhh.

[silly_monkey]

[ QUOTE ]

Preflop: 3 limpers to me...Thought about folding, but I think calling is OK. Raised behind me - crap.....autocall with everyone coming along for the ride.

Flop: Pretty sure I'm behind, but I have outs

Turn: Now I have a flush draw along with my other outs

River: Got my flush, but with two bets before me I'm probably beat with a higher flush.

Help on all streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

*GRUNCH*

Pre-flop is alright. JTo is really a pretty crappy hand that is hard to play post flop. I would fold here, but I hate JTo.

The flop is yucky, but you're getting 17-1 with only one person to act behind here. You have 2 tens which may be good, and 3 jacks. But, 2 of those outs put a three flush on the board. Plus you have the backdoor flush draw to the fifth nuts. You could probably guess you have around 4 outs, so this is an easy call.

Turn is double yuck. I would assume that your ten and jack outs might be dead, so you now have 9 outs to the fifth nuts flush. Still you are getting 11-1... so I would call.

I call the river. You have the 4th nuts. You are gettin 14-1 so you really don't have to be right very often. I think this is an easy call. You might even be able to raise for value here.

I would have played this hand exactly the way you did, although I may have folded pre-flop. Oh who am I kidding? I would have called preflop too.

[ QUOTE ]

I raise the flop to see where I am. He could be betting out with middle pair for information, etc. His donk bet doesn't tell us much. If he 3-bets, I think I fold the turn unimproved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising to me seems to be very wrong......
raising for information in this situation just isn't going to get any results. I think your gonna find out everyone is going to call because they've already committed one to the pot and hopefully someone doesn't 3bet (which would suck).

With the pot size any overcard is going to call and any backdoor flush/straight is going to call.
Your TT doesn't have enough strength to be betting for value
Raise = bad , Call = good , fold = bad

******************
And once you pick up the flush draw I think your in until the end unless some powerful aggression happens. You could be up against high pair or two pair to this point. I just call the river and will probably hate the result most of the time but not enough to give up the big pot for 1 more = 7% of the time I get to be right

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: why not raise here? Top pair vs flush and straight draw out there...think you should raise. Maybe SB is pushing through AK here.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you hoping to accomplish with the raise? Are you trying to charge those individuals who are drawing to hand much more powerful than yours?

In this situation I think you already have plenty of people in the pot to outdraw your weak TT - you've only got a decent kicker.

At this point you cant protect your hand, its not strong enough to bet for value and no one is folding. After all the others call your raise it basically ties you to the showdown. Now you'll be stuck to the pot and trying to hit your two pair or trip on the river (You'll wish you could get away from the turn)

[ QUOTE ]
I call the river. You have the 4th nuts. You are gettin 14-1 so you really don't have to be right very often. I think this is an easy call. You might even be able to raise for value here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Value raise??

You may get UTG+1 to fold but SB is going to call. I think the call is a close decision and feel the value raise is horrible. No way I'm value betting with this much aggression. They are looking at the same board you are and the SB isn't scared, might be stupid, but not scared. I think that is a bad sign for us.

I don't see how top pair with a weak backdoor flush draw is a drawing hand. Calling on every street seems wrong to me on just about any hand. IMO the goal should be to win the pot because it's already big on the flop, not to call all the way hoping to outdraw everyone else. If you're convinced you're up against AA or KK on the flop, then fold. I've seen players push AK in the SB spot just as hard. But if you raise on the flop, and the SB 3-bets it, the guy with Jh3o (??) would probably fold unless he's a total calling station. That's exactly the hand you're trying to drive out. You're also trying to drive out someone with overcards, hearts or not, to your top pair. If the SB has black aces, and the UTG folds to that flop 3-bet, you win the hand with your flush. If you don't drive that Jh out, your backdoor flush out is no good.

And there's no way "saving a BB" on the river by folding a FLUSH is correct with all that money in the middle. 14:1 odds? Come on. It's only a problem because you're up against two players instead of one. Save your BB's when the pot is small.

ScottieK

:grunch:
Preflop - fine
Flop - call is okay, raise may have been a possibility
Turn - I definitely would have raised here, you have top pair medium kicker and the flush draw. Raise and go for a cheap river.
River would play differently with the turn raise.

Edit after reading post: If SB 3-bet my turn raise I would probably fold, thinking made flush or big pocket with heart.

Grunge:

This is the type of hand that I hate getting. You seem to have the odds on every street but I wouldn't have high expectations about winning it.

[Nikademus]

*grunch*
I think your play is fine on all streets, except I would have raised the flop. Make the flush draws pay for coming along.

If you didn't close the action on the turn, I would have folded. Calling there isn't bad.

Someone likely has the A, K or J, but it's worth calling the river to see.

[Nikademus]

[ QUOTE ]
Grunge:

[/ QUOTE ]

??? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Grunch:

I'm OK with the pf as this hand is easy to let go UI. On the flop, I think I raise to see where I am. If the SB 3 bets, then most limpers are gone, and I call. SB feels like a "made" hand, so I count up to 14 possible outs, but discount it somewhat in case the villian holds AA - JJ with a h. Still enough to call. HU - I'm raising his bet on the riv.

As it stands, I think UTG+1 stuck around long enough to higher flush you.