A10s BB...advice sought

[Garland]

Location: Lucky Chances
Stakes: $9/$18
Players: Loose, aggressive and tricky. Probably not the best game.

I'm in the midst of the worst losing streak ever. My last 108 hours of play has just produced crap. I'm searching for answers. I think I'm maximizing my wins, but perhaps I'm not letting go of strong hands that I know are losers (I'm taking more time to think nowadays). Now I'm thinking I'm playing too tight, but almost all the hands that have been "questionable" under standard conditions really haven't flopped anything, so I'm not concerned about that. My strong hands aren't holding up and I'm not getting enough high pocket pairs during that streak. Anyhow, there was an interesting hand:

BB: Me (tight aggressive)
UTG: Henry (complains too much and is a really bad player. loose weak. Will only bet or raise with made hands)
MP: Loose
Button: Loose raiser. I've seen him 4-bet on A high hoping his opponent would fold. (His opponent had a pair of 5 on a board with J, 10, 9, 5, 2 and won!). So his betting and raising is a bit dubious.

So UTG limps, MP limps, Button limps, and I rap the table with a pretty decent starting hand:

A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

The flop comes:

A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet, UTG calls, MP calls, Button calls.

Turn: Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

This is a slight scare card as someone might be gutting with KJ. But I bet out. MP raises. Now I felt in my heart of hearts that this raise means he made his 2nd pair in addition he is only one bet from going all-in (this is key). But I still had top and 3rd pair and was planning to pop him back... MP folds, now button reraises. Now I have a problem. I read him to have KJ now because I know UTG will call and go all-in. I MUCK my hand.

The river:

J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] - The ugliest card possible

MP - Q10o for his made two pair
Button - K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. For the winner on the river.

Button commented he raised because he had a lot of outs (any J or spade). But I felt he had erred for he could not bluff on the end if he missed in any event.

Now I try not to be result oriented, but I did fold the winning hand on the turn, and would have ended up losing on the river.

Question #1. Button misplayed on button? He could have gotten more money from me if he should hit.

Question #2. My fold on the the turn? How horrible or good? This is important as I encounter tricky players.

Thanks,

Garland

[shemp]

I used to occasionally play in those games, and I think they actually could get kind of tough, because the rake+toke seemed very high and the players often had some card sense and people skills -- but I'm a fish. You need to gamble it up a bit more, I think.

As to your question, I don't think there's a clear answer, and that folding is a small though not un-important mistake. On a positive note, it is one way to stay out of a jam, which can be a good thing. Whenever I continue here it seems I'm drawing slim, and whenever I fold, I had the best hand.

Anyway, I'd usually foolhardily reraise against really aggressive opponents ever-hopefully suspecting at worst a split if the draws don't arrive -- I'd fold against more typical players, but that doesn't help you much. The most important thing is you don't stew, and you ask consider whether they are taking shots at you specifically in addition to being tricky/aggressive, and what you need to do about it if so.

[Gabe]

Against the players you describe, I think you should raise before the flop.

[SoBeDude]

The button's play seems odd and opposite of good play. The problem is this. He HAS to know he's behind to the nearly all-in player. Yes the button has one card to hit 12 outs. thats almost 3 to 1 odds against him hitting.

So his 3bet isolates an opponent he's behind, and reduces the money in the pot when he does hit on the river by pushing out you - the only player who might pay him off if he does hit.

There are 7 big bets in the pot on the turn at the button's decision point, and he has to call 2 to continue. So he has the odds to make the call, but the raise must be an -EV play.

Also his implied odds are zilch. He has one opponent almost all-in, and only one other opponent who will probably freeze if the flush appears on the river. He's collecting MAX 2 bets on the river.

Bad 3bet.

As for your play, I don't think I'm folding that two pair here. Looks to me like the short stack is raising to get all in, and the button's 3bet smacks of trying to isolate an almost all-in player looking to bust out. But it is opponent dependent.

-Scott