value betting river

[alphatmw]

this screws me up so much. converters not workign so i'll just describe it. .1/.25 NL

i'm in BB with 75o. flop comes 763. SB bets 1, i raise to 3, rest fold and SB calls.

turn is 7. he checks, i bet about 5, he calls.

river is blank. he checks, i bet, he raises all in, i call, he had Q7.

should i have bet the river or just checked it??? i always figure "if he has this beat, he would have bet" and value bet the river, only to lose the hand.

[gulebjorn]

75o sucks and you don't play it for top pair.

So just call on the flop. And if it wasn't for the gutshot straight draw, I'd consider folding, depending on who i'm up against.

Turn: pot sized bet

River: depending on size of pot, size of bet, read on opponent, this could be a fold or a call

[alphatmw]

i don't like calling the flop since theres 3 people behind us, and the next card is almost sure to be an overcard. i wanna force out overcards and see if SB is really strong. i'd rather fold than call.

river.. he checked to me. should i have checked or bet?

[gulebjorn]

Value bet the river, of course.

On the flop: 3 opponents behind you or not, it doesn't matter.

Do not play 75o for top pair value.

You want to see a cheap turn, in case you hit your straight or improve to two pair or trips. Why dump money into a pot that is probably a lost cause anyway?

[alphatmw]

so i call with the intention of folding a turn bet if an overcard comes or what?? whats my play after calling the bet?

edit: whast your play on the flop without the gutshot draw? i might have remembered the flop wrong, i don't remember having a gutshot draw.

[gulebjorn]

75o is crap, any way you look at it. You cannot expect to somehow "make" a pot yours, just because you happen to hit top pair with it.

Like you said, there's 3 players behind you. They could be sitting there with 33, 66, or any pocket pair that beats your 7's. Any loose caller holding two overcards might decide to call your raise anyway. SB bet, so probably has some kind of hand and is calling your raise anyway.

I don't really see you taking down this pot on the flop, unless you bet really big, but this might as well backfire, because it doesn't take much to beat your pair.

And like you said, an overcard is likely to fall. In that case, I'd be done with the hand.

So yea fold if an overcard comes and you get action. You are looking for a 7, 5 or 4. Look at this as a drawing hand: you are probably beat at this time, so you will only continue with the hand if the price is right. If an overcard falls, compare pot odds and hand odds. You have 9 outs, so if the action on the turn isn't too big, you might wanna continue and try to draw out.

JMO, you might want a second opinion.

Edit: just saw your edit. Without the gutshot draw, take the plan I laid out for the turn, and apply on the flop. If you get action on the flop, you are probably beat. If you can see a cheap turn, take it. If you are facing a pot sized bet, I'd strongly advise you fold this.

[alphatmw]

w/o a straight draw, do you fold the flop? or call and hope to improve to two pair/trips?

[gulebjorn]

[ QUOTE ]
w/o a straight draw, do you fold the flop? or call and hope to improve to two pair/trips?

[/ QUOTE ]

See edit of last post.