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#52
07-26-2004, 07:07 PM
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Re: AT as BB facing a raise
Not to nitpick, but most of the responses are about the post-flop play. Quite frankly, I get annoyed by the one line responses of "Fold preflop." Yes, we all agree this is an easy fold, but given that the poster IS in this position, doesn't make postflop play irrelevent.
BTW, I would like to side with GoT here in that there is some pretty loose advice here, especially in EP, that I don't particularily like. While most of the advice on this board is very good and mostly accurate, inexeperienced players who lack the post-flop skills to play marginal hands can get hurt by some of it. 
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#54
07-26-2004, 07:42 PM
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Re: AT as BB facing a raise
[ QUOTE ]
It's a preflop fold which makes if difficult to call and check-raise the turn. [/ QUOTE ] I made it pretty clear I would fold preflop, BUT if someone chooses to play this hand, that is how they should play it IMO. The fact they have chosen to play means they think their ace is best, so if they can't even play it aggressively then that shows why it should be folded.
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#55
07-26-2004, 07:51 PM
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Re: AT as BB facing a raise
Fold preflop...
Even if you somehow knew you were beat which I don't think is all that likely, you still wouldn't want to fold with 6 outs and 3 more on the turn. Personally I would call flop and turn and probably go for a checkraise on the river against aggro opponents, or bet the river if I thought that he might check through with big pairs. It's a principle issue, but I don't see how you could call a raise with AT, hit your best card twice, and not go to showdown, or for that matter, not put in more than one bet or raise.
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#56
07-26-2004, 08:27 PM
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Re: AT as BB facing a raise
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, we all agree this is an easy fold, but given that the poster IS in this position, doesn't make postflop play irrelevent. [/ QUOTE ] Meh, I guess it's the NL player in me (I just switched to limit ring games a month ago) that has a hard time letting someone just have my blind. There's a lot of hands said person could've raised with at the .25/.50 limits (AA - 22, AK - AJ, KQ, hell, I've been 3 bet preflop by someone holding 66 when I raised UTG with AA). Perhaps defending my blind here was a mistake, I'll grant you all that. My thought proccess was rather simple; he could be raising with plenty of hands that don't include an ace and if an ace flops, I'll bet and see where I stand. This was the original reason I posted here, because he raised my bet which let me know that he wasn't scared of my ace at all. I do find it interesting, however, that many people here say to fold preflop, but no one (and I mean no one) agrees that I should've folded after the flop (which I agree with). If most people think that his EP raise means that my AT is dominated, why don't those same people think that him raising my flop bet means that I'm way behind? Thankfully, this is the first time I've encountered such a hand, so it can't be too big of a leak [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].
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#57
07-26-2004, 11:20 PM
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Re: AT as BB facing a raise
A lot of the poker authorities on 2+2 will probably say that calling here is alright or that it is at worst a minute error, but I strongly disagree and continue to disagree with the loose advice often seen in the SS and Micro boards as of late.
This is an easy fold. Very routine easy fold. On p.258 of SSH I have a very similar example (but you have A9 instead and the small blind called instead of folded). I don't know of too many 2+2 types who would advocate calling here. You say stuff like this a lot, GoT. I honestly don't really know what you are talking about. What loose advice would lead you to think that someone would advocate calling here?
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#58
07-26-2004, 11:28 PM
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Re: AT as BB facing a raise
[ QUOTE ]
They tell you to be loose preflop and coldcall with A6s or whatever because the odds of you flopping two pair or better or a draw is whatever, and then they tell you not to fold top pair postflop in a raised pot. [/ QUOTE ] Um, I came into this forum as a rank beginner and no one has _ever_ advocated playing loose preflop...where are you getting this?
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#59
07-27-2004, 01:59 AM
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Re: AT as BB facing a raise
The good news is Ed came to my forum post. The bad thing is he disagreed with me calling here. Either way, thanks for showing up, Ed! I'll ponder this a lot tomorrow after less beer! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#60
07-27-2004, 02:12 AM
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Re: AT as BB facing a raise
[ QUOTE ]
Well, I guess we are just going to have agree to disagree on this one. It is no doubt a marginal situation, and a rare one at that, so either choice won't have a huge effect on your long-term BR. Calling preflop in headsup pots out of position with a dominated hand IS a huge leak, and it WILL have a significant impact on your BR. [/ QUOTE ] For the record, my comment was in regards to playing the flop call, fold, or 3-bet. The "is my set of aces good here" situation, not the PF call. I will admit that I would have called for sure as well, but that is something I will have to work on. What was rare and not a long-term issue was the flop play. Just felt the need to clarify since I was accidentally misquoted. Later all.
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